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Ridgewood, NJ
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Jefferson Twp., NJ
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 Algae stains on roofs
[#2] Posted: 08/21/2009 - 3:10:01 PM |  |  |
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Hey Neal,
You don't even want to know my response to the "Why didn't you know our insurance company would require this" thing... I'm in a mood and might say something inappropriate. 
I have this .pdf file that I include with my reports.
Download Attachment:  CASMA - Techincal Bulletin Roof Staining Algae.pdf
81.82 KB
The algae is aesthetic only. Tell the insurance agent to go jump off the roof.
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Kyle Kubs
Benchmark Home Inspection Services
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Lakewood, WA
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Algae stains on roofs
[#3] Posted: 08/21/2009 - 3:11:40 PM | | |
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That algae is a regular occurrence around here and really, depending on how long it has been on there, the "stain" may not come out. Just explain to your client that it is not mold, but algae. They can try and use Moss Out, but the algae will more than likely return They could also apply a zinc strip to the ridge and that might help. The blue green algae, is from an airborne source and real common in humid areas.
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Rob Jones
South Sound Inspections
Seattle Home Inspection
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Nazareth, PA
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Algae stains on roofs
[#4] Posted: 08/21/2009 - 3:13:20 PM | | |
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I've never heard of an insurance company requiring algae be removed. I think if pressed, they'd have a hard time coming up with published validation of their position. But then they don't have to - they're the insurance company.
Moss and lichens can damage an asphalt shingle roof. That being said, I have lichens on a corner of my roof, and I'm not doing anything about it. Still, when I encounter it on a roof I'm inspecting, I do recommend having it removed and if possible, eliminating the shade that helped it grow.
But you asked about algae. I always point it out to the buyer, just so they don't move in, wonder what that black stuff on the roof is and call me. Here's what goes in the report:
The asphalt shingle roofing has discoloration on the surface. This is algae and is mainly a cosmetic issue. There are ways to reduce or eliminate this condition. See Article 3C.25 for more information.
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Joe Hancaviz
Nazareth, PA |
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Kenmore, WA
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Algae stains on roofs
[#5] Posted: 08/21/2009 - 6:36:04 PM | | |
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Hi,
Zinc straps are a waste of money. They work for a few feet but after that their effectiveness weakens. If you want them to be effective, you need to install them every few feet. Moss and algae, like humans, use acid to consume their meal - oxalic acid - the same stuff one would use to clean concrete. If it's powerful enough to etch concrete....?
There are alga that literally eat limestone and some roof manufacturers use limestone granules in their protective granular coatings. If moss and alga couldn't harm roofs, why would roof manufacturers go to the extent of developing alga-resistant shingles? Surely not just to keep the roof looking pretty - anyone can do that with a roof cleaning solution; it's not necessary to spend untold millions developing alga resistant formulations.
I'm not a chemist, but after many years of looking at what moss and alga do to asphalt covers, I'm convinced there is good cause to get both off the roof.
Where moss grows and is ignored, the granules easily separate from the shingles along with the moss when the roof is eventually cleaned. I've noticed that there is a noticeable corresponding hardening or brittleness of the shingle material where the moss grows. I've noticed the same hardening where alga stains are left unattended for extended periods of time.
Roofing shingle manufacturers can call it "cosmetic" all they want - my experience has shown that it's not just cosmetic and I'm convinced it's bad for the cover.
ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!
Mike
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Algae stains on roofs
[#6] Posted: 08/21/2009 - 6:49:24 PM | | |
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There's gotta be some regionality to it, I'd guess. I see algae and moss around here, sometimes for years on my own roof, and it doesn't hurt anything all that much.
I'd imagine Seattle moss could eat a roof.
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Kurt in Chicago
"If I smell it, it goes in the report".............Phillip Smith...2012
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Algae stains on roofs
[#10] Posted: 08/21/2009 - 9:14:46 PM | | |
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[quote]Originally posted by hausdok
Hi,
Zinc straps are a waste of money. They work for a few feet but after that their effectiveness weakens. If you want them to be effective, you need to install them every few feet. [quote]
I think I have to beg to differ with you on that one.
Click to View
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All that clear area down to the eaves from that little Copper cap at the peak. Personally I think Copper works better then Zinc but they both work.
I have a house that faces my yard, heavily wooded and the shingled roof looks like a green shag carpet with moss. All except the completely clear area directly under the skylight that is flashed with Copper, Clear and clean all the way to the gutters, probably around 12', hell the edges are even crisp like someone ran a lawnmower through it.
Comparing Moss to Algae is like elephants and ameba's... Yah, moss around here can do a real number on a roof if let go. The fungus we have is even worse, but I've never seen damage or wear from the black staining algae.
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Kyle Kubs
Benchmark Home Inspection Services
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Ridgewood, NJ
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Algae stains on roofs
[#11] Posted: 08/22/2009 - 05:25:25 AM | | |
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Maybe the insurance company that wants it removed is based in Seattle? 
I'll see if I can get the name of the insurance company.
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Neal Lewis
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Kenmore, WA
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Algae stains on roofs
[#13] Posted: 08/22/2009 - 11:16:56 AM | | |
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I see algae pretty often in my area and I do note this in my report. I classify the algae staining as mostly cosmetic, although moss growth can damage over time. I've also never heard of an insurance company caring about mildew/algae on a roof. When I see algae, I verbally suggest a product such as Roof Reviver which works well in cleaning this stuff off gradually, and also mention that when it comes time to re-shingle, thet may want to use an "AR" shingle.
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Matthew Steger
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Jefferson Twp., NJ
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Algae stains on roofs
[#14] Posted: 08/24/2009 - 08:34:26 AM | | |
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Quote: Originally posted by hausdokQuote: Originally posted by Kyle Kubs
I have a house that faces my yard, heavily wooded and the shingled roof looks like a green shag carpet with moss. All except the completely clear area directly under the skylight that is flashed with Copper, Clear and clean all the way to the gutters, probably around 12', hell the edges are even crisp like someone ran a lawnmower through it. Comp or wood shingle? Here I see that happening with shakes and wood shingle but not with comp. Here, it seems to work for 3 -4 feet and then peters out on a comp roof but will keep the roof clear to the eaves on shakes and wood shingles. I think it's got to do with absorbency; the wood cover absorbs the stuff leaching off the copper or zinc but the comp doesn't - at least not what I've been seeing here. I suppose there can be different varieties of mosses and alga that are adapted to various regions that react differently. If there are, I can't imagine what it takes for a roofing manufacturer to reach an acceptable balance. Still convinced the stuff does damage roof covers. Bill, for the record, I hate roof cleaning companies. If I were King of the Planet, the state would issue home inspectors seasonal hunting licenses and allow them to thin out the roof cleaner herd once a year. Every inspector would have a 2-kill limit. Inspectors would be lauded as heroes for doing a service to humanity.  ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike
Sorry, should have been more specific. - My neighbors roof is Asphalt Comp. I've seen it on several others also. I've been wanting to take a picture of my neighbor's roof but I don't know him, he might not take well to me pointing a camera at the back of his house from the the woods in back of mine... Thinking about it, the pic. I posted was pulled from Dan Freidmens web site, I don't even know where it was taken.
In regards to that and the Algae causing damage, I'm sure this is an instance where regional factors could easily have a dramatic effect...
We have pretty harsh Winters compared to you. Our full year cycle can see temperatures from 115 degrees to -20.
We don't have things like your wood destroying fungus' either.
Hell you have volcanic gases roaming around your area and coming down in the rain, that alone could account for a hell of a lot of things, including the lime being eaten away from the granule.
Out here, that algae is nothing but a stain.
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Kyle Kubs
Benchmark Home Inspection Services
New Jersey NJ |
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Georgetown, KY
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Algae stains on roofs
[#16] Posted: 08/24/2009 - 8:39:10 PM | | |
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| Quote: Originally posted by Kyle Kubs
In regards to that and the Algae causing damage, I'm sure this is an instance where regional factors could easily have a dramatic effect...
We have pretty harsh Winters compared to you. Our full year cycle can see temperatures from 115 degrees to -20.
We don't have things like your wood destroying fungus' either.
Hell you have volcanic gases roaming around your area and coming down in the rain, that alone could account for a hell of a lot of things, including the lime being eaten away from the granule.
Out here, that algae is nothing but a stain. Todays house, a Cape Cod, was oriented east west so the front surface of the roof gets sun all day long. The front slope is free of fungi and the back is all covered with a dark gray algae but no moss.
The difference in the conditions of the shingles was dramatic. On the front slope where the sun kills any alga spore, the roof is showing its age but the tab slots were consistent in width, the shingles lay flat and they actually look pretty good although it's definitely time to replace them. On the back slope, the shingles are literally shriveling up. the protective granule coating is sloughing off and the shingles are covered with random cracks. The only difference front to back is the alga.
The difference is so dramatic that the realtor thought I must be mistaken and began talking about how they'd have to see what an FHA appraiser says. I told him that they do not need to see what the FHA appraiser says because I'd just told him what the condition of the cover was - there isn't any if, ands or buts about it, the roof is completely shot and should have been replaced years ago. The client "got" it.
But it's just a little bit of algae!!
ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!
Mike
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Jefferson Twp., NJ
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Algae stains on roofs
[#17] Posted: 08/24/2009 - 9:29:07 PM | | |
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Quote: Originally posted by hausdokQuote: Originally posted by Kyle Kubs
In regards to that and the Algae causing damage, I'm sure this is an instance where regional factors could easily have a dramatic effect...
We have pretty harsh Winters compared to you. Our full year cycle can see temperatures from 115 degrees to -20.
We don't have things like your wood destroying fungus' either.
Hell you have volcanic gases roaming around your area and coming down in the rain, that alone could account for a hell of a lot of things, including the lime being eaten away from the granule.
Out here, that algae is nothing but a stain. Todays house, a Cape Cod, was oriented east west so the front surface of the roof gets sun all day long. The front slope is free of fungi and the back is all covered with a dark gray algae but no moss. The difference in the conditions of the shingles was dramatic. On the front slope where the sun kills any alga spore, the roof is showing its age but the tab slots were consistent in width, the shingles lay flat and they actually look pretty good although it's definitely time to replace them. On the back slope, the shingles are literally shriveling up. the protective granule coating is sloughing off and the shingles are covered with random cracks. The only difference front to back is the alga. The difference is so dramatic that the realtor thought I must be mistaken and began talking about how they'd have to see what an FHA appraiser says. I told him that they do not need to see what the FHA appraiser says because I'd just told him what the condition of the cover was - there isn't any if, ands or buts about it, the roof is completely shot and should have been replaced years ago. The client "got" it. But it's just a little bit of algae!! ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike
Now given, again, that the algae your seeing may be a completely different animal then what I typically see it almost sounds like the algae may be just one more symptom of those harsher conditions and not the cause. I see the same thing, I'm sure we all do, where one side gets the sun, the other side doesn't and they age very differently. I see roof's all the time that are not bad on one side and shot on the other but the shot side doesn't necessarily have algae staining on it. If it did, again, I would add that to the list of symptoms caused by the exposure difference, not the cause of the severe difference in aging.
Now, for clarity, and I may just be interpreting what your saying differently, it sounds like what your talking about has some, physical dimension to it, almost like something you could scrape off a little and show it to someone in your hand? Here, I would call that mildew. What I'm talking about with algae staining is literally, just that, a stain, nothing I could possibly physically separate from the shingle.
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Kyle Kubs
Benchmark Home Inspection Services
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Kenmore, WA
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Algae stains on roofs
[#18] Posted: 08/24/2009 - 9:38:52 PM | | |
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Nope,
It's a dark stain, you can't peel it off or scrape it off; about all you can do is treat it with a diluted bleach solution to lighten it. The weather pattern comes from the southwest here but the south side doesn't typically wear out first - the north side does.
Harsh weather? Not here. It only occasionally goes well below freezing in winter here and in summer it's pretty rare to see a day above 90°F - that's why folks were freaking out three weeks ago when it topped 100.
ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!
Mike
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Algae stains on roofs
[#21] Posted: 09/15/2009 - 12:57:26 AM | | |
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hmmm have you verified that call because its possible that some one wants to make fun, i live in Florida and i never heard this type of policy any where before or you should consult with some lawyer because it can be applied by only the city builder.
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Algae stains on roofs
[#22] Posted: 12/05/2010 - 11:19:29 AM | | |
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Quote: Originally posted by hausdokQuote: Originally posted by Kyle Kubs
I have a house that faces my yard, heavily wooded and the shingled roof looks like a green shag carpet with moss. All except the completely clear area directly under the skylight that is flashed with Copper, Clear and clean all the way to the gutters, probably around 12', hell the edges are even crisp like someone ran a lawnmower through it. Comp or wood shingle? Here I see that happening with shakes and wood shingle but not with comp. Here, it seems to work for 3 -4 feet and then peters out on a comp roof but will keep the roof clear to the eaves on shakes and wood shingles. I think it's got to do with absorbency; the wood cover absorbs the stuff leaching off the copper or zinc but the comp doesn't - at least not what I've been seeing here. I suppose there can be different varieties of mosses and alga that are adapted to various regions that react differently. If there are, I can't imagine what it takes for a roofing manufacturer to reach an acceptable balance. Still convinced the stuff does damage roof covers. Bill, for the record, I hate roof cleaning companies. If I were King of the Planet, the state would issue home inspectors seasonal hunting licenses and allow them to thin out the roof cleaner herd once a year. Every inspector would have a 2-kill limit. Inspectors would be lauded as heroes for doing a service to humanity. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike
Bill;
I don't understand your hate for roof cleaners. What has any roof cleaner ever done to you for you to make the totally assinine and truly non-professional remarks that you made in this post. What puts home inspectors so far above roof cleaners that you think they should be granted the power and authority to "thin out the roof cleaning herd"? Is this just "ones man's biased opinion, or do you really have some kind of bone to pick with the roof cleaning industry?" Your comments could almost fall under "terroristic threatning" under the new laws. Perhaps you should give more "professional" thought to your comments before you make them. I really would like to know your "beef' with roof cleaners.
Care to explain?
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Algae stains on roofs
[#23] Posted: 12/05/2010 - 12:14:03 PM | | |
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| Quote: Originally posted by garyw
Bill;
I don't understand your hate for roof cleaners. What has any roof cleaner ever done to you for you to make the totally assinine and truly non-professional remarks that you made in this post. What puts home inspectors so far above roof cleaners that you think they should be granted the power and authority to "thin out the roof cleaning herd"? Is this just "ones man's biased opinion, or do you really have some kind of bone to pick with the roof cleaning industry?" Your comments could almost fall under "terroristic threatning" under the new laws. Perhaps you should give more "professional" thought to your comments before you make them. I really would like to know your "beef' with roof cleaners.
Care to explain?
The only thing I can explain is that you have a reading comprehension issue. Here's my only post on the topic:
Quote: "That's the same statement on literature from companies that sell all the crap to treat roofs that have black streaks. It also now appears on thousands of websites of roofing contractors, cleaning services and hundreds of home inspectors. Even homeowner associations are distributing this nonsense in bulletins.
Moss and lichens can damage a roof. What's causing the black streaks does not.
What's causing the dark stains is gloeocapsa magma. Everyone calls it algea, but it's really a species of cyanobacteria. It's a strain of photosynthesizing bacteria and it's "food" is water and the nutrients in rainwater, primarily nitrogen.
It's ugly, but it's NOT EATING THE SHINGLES!"
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| Bill Kibbel, Historic & Commercial Building Inspections - Old House Resources |
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Lexington, KY
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Algae stains on roofs
[#24] Posted: 12/05/2010 - 1:06:10 PM | | |
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Quote: Originally posted by Bill KibbelQuote: Originally posted by garyw
Bill;
I don't understand your hate for roof cleaners. What has any roof cleaner ever done to you for you to make the totally assinine and truly non-professional remarks that you made in this post. What puts home inspectors so far above roof cleaners that you think they should be granted the power and authority to "thin out the roof cleaning herd"? Is this just "ones man's biased opinion, or do you really have some kind of bone to pick with the roof cleaning industry?" Your comments could almost fall under "terroristic threatning" under the new laws. Perhaps you should give more "professional" thought to your comments before you make them. I really would like to know your "beef' with roof cleaners.
Care to explain?
The only thing I can explain is that you have a reading comprehension issue. Here's my only post on the topic: Quote: "That's the same statement on literature from companies that sell all the crap to treat roofs that have black streaks. It also now appears on thousands of websites of roofing contractors, cleaning services and hundreds of home inspectors. Even homeowner associations are distributing this nonsense in bulletins.
Moss and lichens can damage a roof. What's causing the black streaks does not.
What's causing the dark stains is gloeocapsa magma. Everyone calls it algea, but it's really a species of cyanobacteria. It's a strain of photosynthesizing bacteria and it's "food" is water and the nutrients in rainwater, primarily nitrogen.
It's ugly, but it's NOT EATING THE SHINGLES!"
Bill, I have to confess that I stole your language back when you wrote this, and now regularly spew it out as if I'm an expert on the stuff.
Sorry? Thank you? Insert whatever's appropriate, but no terroristic threatning (sic).
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Algae stains on roofs
[#26] Posted: 12/05/2010 - 7:45:13 PM | | |
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Quote: Originally posted by garywQuote: Originally posted by hausdokQuote: Originally posted by Kyle Kubs
I have a house that faces my yard, heavily wooded and the shingled roof looks like a green shag carpet with moss. All except the completely clear area directly under the skylight that is flashed with Copper, Clear and clean all the way to the gutters, probably around 12', hell the edges are even crisp like someone ran a lawnmower through it. Comp or wood shingle? Here I see that happening with shakes and wood shingle but not with comp. Here, it seems to work for 3 -4 feet and then peters out on a comp roof but will keep the roof clear to the eaves on shakes and wood shingles. I think it's got to do with absorbency; the wood cover absorbs the stuff leaching off the copper or zinc but the comp doesn't - at least not what I've been seeing here. I suppose there can be different varieties of mosses and alga that are adapted to various regions that react differently. If there are, I can't imagine what it takes for a roofing manufacturer to reach an acceptable balance. Still convinced the stuff does damage roof covers. Bill, for the record, I hate roof cleaning companies. If I were King of the Planet, the state would issue home inspectors seasonal hunting licenses and allow them to thin out the roof cleaner herd once a year. Every inspector would have a 2-kill limit. Inspectors would be lauded as heroes for doing a service to humanity. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Bill; I don't understand your hate for roof cleaners. What has any roof cleaner ever done to you for you to make the totally assinine and truly non-professional remarks that you made in this post. What puts home inspectors so far above roof cleaners that you think they should be granted the power and authority to "thin out the roof cleaning herd"? Is this just "ones man's biased opinion, or do you really have some kind of bone to pick with the roof cleaning industry?" Your comments could almost fall under "terroristic threatning" under the new laws. Perhaps you should give more "professional" thought to your comments before you make them. I really would like to know your "beef' with roof cleaners. Care to explain?
To answer your question; I'd say that's my biased opinion. It's mine. Not Bill's. I have a right to my opinions just like you have a right to your's. That's the wonderful thing about living in this country.
What's my beef with roof cleaners? Well, with very few exceptions, most roof cleaners I've seen have their heads stuck so far up their asses that I'm convinced they have to go to the proctologist to get their teeth cleaned.
If I had to guess at the ratio of properly cleaned roofs to improperly cleaned and damaged roofs that I see which have been "cleaned" by so-called "roof cleaners" I'd say it's something like 200 to 1.
What harm have roof cleaners done me? None, cuz if I saw one climbing up onto my roof with a pressure washer and that glazed deranged look in his eyes, I'd knock the ladder out from under him. Larry, Daryl and Daryl had better stay the hell away from my home with their friggin pressure washers.
Roof cleaners won't ever be given the opportunity to harm me, but from what I've seen, the majority of them seem to be completely incompetent. They don't harm me, they harm homeowners by ruining perfectly good roofs. Inspectors are in the business of inspecting homes and roofs and it's our unfortunate duty to have to inform people whenever we find a perfectly good roof ruined by some moron that gets a budgie every time he picks up his pressure washer.
Terrorist threat? LOL. You don't like the fact that I don't like 99.9999999% of roof cleaners; too friggin' bad - I'm a home inspector, I know all about getting dissed; and getting dissed hasn't killed me yet. Get over it or better yet, take your pressure washer and give yourself an enema.
ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!
Mike
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