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Addition Roof Framing

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[#1] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 11:18:37 AM
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Fellow Inspectors,
I have a question about the rear addition roof framing. Cape Cod originally had a rear patio. They framed it in and I don't really like the layout of the rafters. The rafters are not continuous from the ledger board where it attaches to the rear wall to the addition wall. It looks like they were thinking about adding skylights. I walked this and it seemed sturdy. Comments welcome.

Anatol

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Addition Roof Framing
[#2] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 11:44:19 AM
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Trimmer joists and headers are both undersized. From the 06' IRC:
Quote: R802.9 Framing of openings. Openings in roof and ceiling framing shall be framed with header and trimmer joists. When the header joist span does not exceed 4 feet (1219 mm), the header joist may be a single member the same size as the ceiling joist or rafter. Single trimmer joists may be used to carry a single header joist that is located within 3 feet (914 mm) of the trimmer joist bearing. When the header joist span exceeds 4 feet (1219 mm), the trimmer joists and the header joist shall be doubled and of sufficient cross section to support the ceiling joists or rafter framing into the header. Approved hangers shall be used for the header joist to trimmer joist connections when the header joist span exceeds 6 feet (1829 mm). Tail joists over 12 feet (3658 mm) long shall be supported at the header by framing anchors or on ledger strips not less than 2 inches by 2 inches (51 mm by 51 mm).

Marc

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Addition Roof Framing
[#3] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 11:44:39 AM
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That's exactly what it's for, it lines right up with the window in your last pic. It's hard to tell from what the slope is but I'm guessing that it's shallow enough your clients are better off without it.
Tom

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Addition Roof Framing
[#4] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 12:11:44 PM
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What Marc said, the trimmer joists and headers should have been doubled for a hole that size, whether they went ahead with the skylight or not.
Joist hangers might not be required, but why not add them anyway?

The fact that they didn't frame it to min standards indicates to me that this addition was either built without a permit or has not had the final approval for covering the ceiling.

Also, I might warn the clients of possible hidden screwups.

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Addition Roof Framing
[#5] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 12:33:43 PM
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Thank you gentlemen..

Anatol

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Addition Roof Framing
[#6] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 4:15:57 PM
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Looks fine to me. If you wanted to be really conservative, you could add some joist hangers.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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Addition Roof Framing
[#7] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 4:23:50 PM
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I'd be concerned only if the roof has a very low slope and it's in an area that gets mountains of snow. I'd tell them it could use some joist hangers just to be safe though.
Bill Kibbel, Historic & Commercial Building Inspections - Old House Resources
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Addition Roof Framing
[#8] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 4:55:29 PM
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How is the ledger board attached to the wall structure?

Quote: Looks fine to me. If you wanted to be really conservative, you could add some joist hangers


Jim,

Would you not mention the fact that it doesn't comply with current standards?




Brandon

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Addition Roof Framing
[#9] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 5:23:23 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by Brandon Whitmore

. . . Jim,

Would you not mention the fact that it doesn't comply with current standards?


I'm not sure that it doesn't meet them. The headers look like they're 4' and it looks like they begin within 3' of the bearing points of the trimmers. What part doesn't comply?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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Addition Roof Framing
[#10] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 5:47:38 PM
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Quote: I'm not sure that it doesn't meet them. The headers look like they're 4' and it looks like they begin within 3' of the bearing points of the trimmers. What part doesn't comply?


Oh, wow. When I first looked at the pictures I thought that the header was over 4'. Looking at it again, I'm pretty sure I was wrong, unless the sheathing panels are over 4' wide

Sorry 'bout that.

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Addition Roof Framing
[#11] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 8:11:48 PM
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Jim, you are correct in that it maybe actually meets the minimum standards.

But it looks like flaky work to me. Look at the attachment of the rafters. Those rafter cavities are not going to be ventilated, and that OSB is going to decay a bit after the insulation is stuffed up there and the drywall goes over it all. I think they should have a stud wall under the upper ends of those rafters. The rafters should run full length so that the rafter cavities can have continuous ventilation.

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Addition Roof Framing
[#12] Posted: 04/05/2011 - 05:06:40 AM
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Tell them to spray foam it. The entire assemblage becomes a monocoque, and you can skip the ventilation silliness. Of course it still needs to be attached well at the ledger.

John, you look at obstacles everyday that interrupt the ventilation path within a rafter cavity, why does this opening bug you?

Tom

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Addition Roof Framing
[#13] Posted: 04/05/2011 - 10:19:17 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by Tom Raymond

Tell them to spray foam it. The entire assemblage becomes a monocoque, and you can skip the ventilation silliness. Of course it still needs to be attached well at the ledger.

John, you look at obstacles everyday that interrupt the ventilation path within a rafter cavity, why does this opening bug you?
I don't know, maybe because I don't want to admit I over reacted to a picture I didn't like?

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Addition Roof Framing
[#14] Posted: 04/05/2011 - 7:56:02 PM
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I wrote it up as suspect, no permits were found for the work. It was a medium slope and the ledger board was bolted to the wall as a deck ledger would be, no flashing visible. Moisture stains on rafters and sheathing, but not wet at the time of the inspection.

Anatol


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Addition Roof Framing
[#15] Posted: 04/06/2011 - 6:44:15 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by Tom Raymond

Tell them to spray foam it. and you can skip the ventilation silliness.


IF, they use closed cell foam. Open cell, the most common around here, because its cheaper...,should still be vented.

Kyle Kubs
Benchmark Home Inspection Services
New Jersey NJ
   
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