The Inspector's Journal Forums
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Join TIJ Forums
Lost Password?
Subscribe to TIJ's Newsletter

All Forums > Technical Forums > Plumbing Forum >

Gluing ABS and PVC

Previous Topic: Corroded copper ever reseal itself? - Topic - Next Topic: Guess the Date - Its Backwards New TopicReply to TopicShare Topic
Posted By  
View Profile
Lexington, KY
Posts: 2585
Joined: Nov, 2004
Currently offline offline
  
Thread Start First Page
[#1] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 07:21:29 AM
Reply with Quote
I checked out an older house this week that had a bunch of PVC and ABS drain lines glued together. I said they were wrong. The buyer, though, calls yesterday and says his plumber took a look and thought the proper "transition glue" had been used. Fishy? Yes. But I can't honestly say that I'd recognize proper or improper "transition glue."

I heard in a CE class early last year that some company had created a glue that would, indeed, meld ABS and PVC, but that the glue hadn't been approved for use, yet.

What do youse guys do when you see ABS and PVC glued together?



Champaign, Illinois
Posts: 515
Joined: Sep, 2006
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#2] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 07:45:23 AM
Reply with Quote
They do make a "General Purpose Glue" that will weld PVC & ABS to themselves, but to one another is not recommended. I believe because ABS & PVC have different expansion & contraction rates.

I've found when there are 2 different plastics in a plumbing system it's usually a hack "Handyman" job.



Image Insert:

141.58 KB

Longwood, FL
Posts: 111
Joined: Sep, 2002
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#3] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 08:46:19 AM
Reply with Quote
Oatey's transition glue is green, or "greenish", but I only see ABS in mobile homes around here, so not much call for the product.

Transition Cement

View Profile
Kenmore, WA
Posts: 15727
Joined: Dec, 2003
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#4] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 09:08:32 AM
Reply with Quote
Hi,

You, the general practitioner, had referred the patient to a surgeon because you suspected an issue. Now the surgeon says that it's fine and the client is calling you back wanting you, the general practitioner, to assume part of the surgeon's liability.

I'd just tell him that if he doesn't want to believe the plumber he should get a different opinion from another specialist, 'cuz there's no way that I have, short of destructive testing and lab testing, to prove the plumber wrong.

OT - OF!!!

M.

View Profile
Gervais, Oregon
Posts: 1260
Joined: Jul, 2006
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#5] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 09:51:46 AM
Reply with Quote
Are you talking about the grey pipe and the white fittings? The grey is PVC; ABS is black.

No, transition glue is not approved for use within the footprint of the house.

Under the Uniform Plumbing Code your right and the plumber is wrong.

If that's a drain, it's messed up.

Chris, Oregon

View Profile
Lexington, KY
Posts: 2585
Joined: Nov, 2004
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#6] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 10:11:51 AM
Reply with Quote
That's Frank's photo, Chris.

I was talking about this kind of t'ing. I know it's wrong, but was wondering if the plumber who came in behind me was aware of something I wasn't.



Image Insert:

103.79 KB

Champaign, Illinois
Posts: 515
Joined: Sep, 2006
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#7] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 10:40:01 AM
Reply with Quote
Quote: Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

Are you talking about the grey pipe and the white fittings? a


I'm sorry, I was just trying to show a hack job.

Frank

shoreline, wa
Posts: 77
Joined: May, 2004
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#8] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 12:05:36 PM
Reply with Quote
From the IRC:

P3003.2 Prohibited joints.
Running threads and bands shall not be used in the drainage system. Drainage and vent piping shall not be drilled, tapped, burned or welded. The following types of joints and connections shall be prohibited:
1. Cement or concrete.
2. Mastic or hot-pour bituminous joints.
3. Joints made with fittings not approved for the specific installation.
4. Joints between different diameter pipes made with elastomeric rolling O-rings.
5. Solvent-cement joints between different types of plastic pipe.6. Saddle-type fittings.

cab
View Profile
Gervais, Oregon
Posts: 1260
Joined: Jul, 2006
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#9] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 12:36:49 PM
Reply with Quote
A few years ago I had a house with a bunch of ABS to PVC glued connections in the crawlspace. The biggest plumbing outfit down in Salem, OR charged the seller $2000 to install fernco couplers . Must have taken then about 2 hours. What a rip off.

Chris, Oregon

View Profile
Gaston, Oregon
Posts: 8860
Joined: Dec, 2003
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#10] Posted: 01/12/2008 - 7:59:17 PM
Reply with Quote
You can use transition cement to join one type of piping *system* to another *system*. For instance the DWV piping in the house might be ABS plastic and the sewer pipes might be PVC. Transition cement can be used to connect the DWV system to the sewer system. That's what transition cement is intended to be used for.

A couple of years ago, I did an experimetnt for the Oregon Association of Home Inspectors. I made up about 24 fittings using combinations of ABS and PVC pipe glued to each other with every combination of correct and incorrect cement products that I could find. I then sawed each connection in half to examine the finished joints. Some looked better than others but they were all strong joints.

At the next meeting, I passed out the pieces to the membership along with hammers, pliers and vice grips and invited them to destroy the connections. I wanted to see which fittings failed and how they failed.

By the end of the evening, not a single joint failed. They all broke at the point where the pipe met the fitting, but the cemented surfaces remained glued to each other in every case. This included PVC glued to PVC with ABS cement and vice versa.

- Jim Katen, Oregon


Jim Katen, Oregon
www.amipdx.com
View Profile
Lexington, KY
Posts: 2585
Joined: Nov, 2004
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#11] Posted: 01/13/2008 - 04:26:40 AM
Reply with Quote
Yeah . . . I've seen tons of mismatched drains, but never one that was actually leaking. Maybe that's why the plumbers say the things are okay. But if we don't tell our clients the connections are wrong, we'll be paying for the repairs when they eventually sell the house and some other inspector says the mismatched couplings are prohibited.

It's a frustrating and recurring theme on our board, here. One tradesperson does something wrong, and a second tradesperson says it's legit after we call it defective. Mike's on the money about the transfer of liability, but still, these mini-quarrels become tiresome.


Harlem, Ga.147
Posts: 1
Joined: Sep, 2008
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#12] Posted: 09/08/2008 - 08:17:02 AM
Reply with Quote
I have read different ways to join ABS to PVC and decided to conduct my own experiment.

With14 joints and using purple primer on both fitting and pipe, and installing a 10ft. water head, the following glues were used:

Oatey's ABS to PVC "green"
Weld-On's 704 and 735 Wet 'N Fast PVC glue
ACE's ABS
Flow Guard's CPVC (believe it or not)

No leaks, but a Fernco coupling may be the best for piece of mind.

View Profile
Kenmore, WA
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sep, 2004
Currently offline offline
  
Gluing ABS and PVC
[#13] Posted: 09/08/2008 - 08:27:26 AM
Reply with Quote
Interesting. I wonder if the whole proprietary glue thing is a result of some manufacturers creating a need where there really isn't one?

Oh well. I'll keep calling dissimilar joints anyway.

Randy Navarro
http://www.thecompleteinspection.com
   
Previous Topic: Corroded copper ever reseal itself? - Topic - Next Topic: Guess the Date - Its Backwards New TopicReply to TopicShare Topic
Jump To:
The Inspector's Journal Forums © 2002-2013 all topics or replies that are posted on The Inspector's Journal
are copyrighted material of the original author that posted the topic or reply.
Go To Top Of Page 
 
Pick an RSS Feed

The views expressed on this website are the views of the authors and
do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of the sponsors.
© 2002-2013 Copyright DevWave Software Inc.
Find a Home Inspector

Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000