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Newberg, OR
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Newberg, OR
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 Another flat roof question....(s)
[#2] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 1:47:56 PM |  |  |
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Here's a couple more pic's of the standing water...
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Brandon
Portland Home Inspector |
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State: PA & NJ
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#3] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 2:06:07 PM | | |
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It sure looks like modified bitumen. It needs UV protection. Terminating it vertically and smearing goop on the top edge is not an acceptable flashing detail and will soon separate. The plumbing vent penetrations will leak too. If that water stands for more than 24 hours, it's ponding.
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| Bill Kibbel, Historic & Commercial Building Inspections - Old House Resources |
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Evanston, Illinois
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#4] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 2:20:36 PM | | |
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That IS GAF's ruberoid modified bitumen. Like Bill said, it's all wrong. All of the correct flashing details can be found at GAF's website.
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| Cary |
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Newberg, OR
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#5] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 3:17:26 PM | | |
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It doesn't look/ feel like any mod. bit I am used to, but I am not arguing. It is much thicker and more firm than the stuff I have seen. Of course, I don't look at many flat roofs in these parts (you guy's answered my questions on the last flat roof I saw).
Thanks for the info. , I have something to go on now.
PS: The roof was just installed in Sep. '08 and is fully warrantied by the roofer - just thought you would want to know. Heck, it only has one leak I can find right now.
I know the 24 (48) hour rule, but at what temp/ under what conditions? (I am guessing any temp/ weather conditions)-- in this case it is ponding)
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Brandon
Portland Home Inspector |
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dover, nj
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#6] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 3:31:05 PM | | |
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The roof is in very bad shape. I see no skuttle holes. The drains must be installed somewhere but I don't see them, and the chimney needs some attention.
I can only imagine the moisture under the roof membrane.
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Newberg, OR
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Newberg, OR
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dover, nj
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#9] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 3:45:11 PM | | |
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Yeah I see from the pics now. I thought the skuttle holes had to exit at the lowest point? That roof looks as if it has been on for a long time, since Sept of 08 is a shocker.
I had a 13,000 sq ft flat roof on my building. PITA!
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Evanston, Illinois
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#10] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 4:21:56 PM | | |
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You're welcome Brandon.
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| Cary |
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State: PA & NJ
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dover, nj
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#12] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 5:00:40 PM | | |
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When I have done tin work on a large building, I had to cut around and install a skuttle hole at the same level at the lowest point of the roof all the way around the building. These holes, or rather penitrations went through the parapet wall so no water would stand on the roof if the drains towards the center of the building happened to get clogged or blocked. You could roll a golf ball on the roof and right out the hole if you know what I mean.
Scuttle (sp)
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Windsor, ON
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#14] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 5:31:45 PM | | |
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I have always thought that a scuttle was an attic hatch.
-Brad
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Brad Manor
Manorhome Consulting Inc. |
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dover, nj
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#15] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 5:41:29 PM | | |
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Sorry bout that. I did not want to mislead anyone. The term used on a job in GA was skuttle but I spelled it wrong and never really cared to look it up. I was just making an observation that I did not see any penetrations at roof level for the water to run out. Then the OP then pointed that out and posted more pics. Sorry bout that, guess I had the term wrong.
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Chicago, IL
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#16] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 6:45:37 PM | | |
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Bill and Cary, thanks for keeping this on track. I've been on a big flat roof all afternoon.........
If it isn't mod bit, I'd be very surprised. As everyone has already noted, the installation details are execrable and the lack of drainage dooms this installation.
Fixing this roof means tearing it off, installing tapered foam to provide drainage, and reinstalling with termination bars, counterflashing, and appropriate details around the penetrations/chimneys/parapets/coping (or lack thereof).
I use the GAF specs often. The NRCA details parallel or are the same as most of the GAF specs.
The mfg. (whoever it is) would take one look at this and wash their hands of it.
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Kurt in Chicago
"If I smell it, it goes in the report".............Phillip Smith...2012
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Newberg, OR
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#17] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 7:56:24 PM | | |
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Ponding as defined by the NRCA:
Ponding
the excessive accumulation of water at low-lying areas on a roof that remains after the 48 hours after the end rainfall under conditions conducive to drying.
Thanks again to all.
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Brandon
Portland Home Inspector |
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Chicago, IL
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#18] Posted: 01/13/2009 - 8:11:21 PM | | |
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Yes. Around here, ponding is anything that hangs around 48 to 72 hours, depending on which mfg. rep you're talking to.
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Kurt in Chicago
"If I smell it, it goes in the report".............Phillip Smith...2012
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Newberg, OR
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#19] Posted: 01/14/2009 - 3:45:27 PM | | |
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Problem is, you could argue what conditions are "conducive to drying". Where is the cut off -- 100 deg. day with 40 mph winds, 50 deg. with no wind or rain for 48 hours..........
I wish it were better defined.
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Brandon
Portland Home Inspector |
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Chicago, IL
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#20] Posted: 01/14/2009 - 4:32:30 PM | | |
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With that POS roof, definitions of ponding are superfluous.
The sucker doesn't drain. Every visible detail from your photos screams incompetent installation.
Anyone wants to argue fine points of drying times, I'd take my riding crop across their lips for talking back.........
I know what you mean about the definition, but it's not something that can be clearly defined. Too many variables.
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Kurt in Chicago
"If I smell it, it goes in the report".............Phillip Smith...2012
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Gaston, Oregon
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Newberg, OR
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#22] Posted: 01/14/2009 - 4:58:22 PM | | |
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Yeah Kurt,
I wasn't even thinking about that roof any more, I've just always wondered.
Part way through this roof evaluation, I noticed I had already taken 30 pic's and just quit. I wanted the manufacturers instructions so there were no arguments. The listing agent promised to get me the info. yesterday so I could pull the instructions up. Haven't heard back for some reason....huh......
There are probably a couple of manufacturers that will not void their roof warranty due to ponding. I know Duro- last is (or was) one of them. Does anyone know of any others?
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Brandon
Portland Home Inspector |
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Kenmore, WA
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Chicago, IL
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#24] Posted: 01/14/2009 - 6:21:20 PM | | |
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I like to dominate the discussion, as it were.........
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Kurt in Chicago
"If I smell it, it goes in the report".............Phillip Smith...2012
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Evanston, Illinois
Posts: 409
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Chicago, IL
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Another flat roof question....(s)
[#26] Posted: 01/15/2009 - 5:49:32 PM | | |
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I'm not aware of any mfg. of mod bit that approves it for ponding conditions. There might be some mfg. rep that will approve it to keep things smooth with their customers.
Like Cary said, TPO's, EPDM, and other single ply membranes can be approved for ponding, but not mod bit.
Someone educate me if there's a mod bit mfg. that sez ponding is OK.
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Kurt in Chicago
"If I smell it, it goes in the report".............Phillip Smith...2012
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