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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line

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[#1] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 12:46:54 PM
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This is another thing I've never seen until the other day. It looked like a malleable iron clamp with a small copper line coming off of it, mounted on a 3/4 black pipe. I've been looking but haven't turned up anything in my reference stuff yet. Are these things kosher? What are the particulars (if any, yea or nay)?

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Brian G.

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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#2] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 1:37:45 PM
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Do you mean like a piercing valve?
Kurt in Chicago

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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#3] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 5:07:31 PM
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Hi Brian,

that is about the nastiest gas line I have ever seen, I cannot believe that that is legal anywhere in the developed world.

Regards

Gerry

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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#4] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 5:38:34 PM
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Brian

That looks like a dielectric union on the line. I don't mean to change the direction of the thread but is that acceptable? I have never seen a dielectric union on a gas line. My mind tells me that it is OK but I have never seen this. In my area it is black pipe all the way. Another question I have, It seems to me that I was once told that the sulfur in Natural Gas has a corrosive effect on copper connections. (Or is that just LP) If that is true, then would the copper line and the clamp become even more of an issue? When someone answers Brian questions can you answer mine as well. Thanks (Sorry Brian for the thread drift.)

If that were a water line then the clamp looks like the clamps that I typically find that supply water to the evaporative cooler.

Jon


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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#5] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 6:20:03 PM
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This was one of those situations where you can't see for more than 8 or 10 feet in any one direction at any one time because of ductwork, piers, etc. I crawled from spot to spot, stopping to look around when it seemed worth it.

You know what, I'll bet that's actually an old galvanized steel water line. I found half a dozen places where the remaining galvanized lines were in bad shape, and some had been replaced fairly recently (in the last year or two). I already wrote in the report about the signs and recommended replacing all of it before it fails and causes damage.

I think I' ve wasted your time gentlemen, my apologies. Thanks to Jon for the clue, I didn't have one. Duh!

Brian "Brain Cramp" G.

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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#6] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 6:57:31 PM
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Possibly a tap for an icemaker/water on the refrigerator in the kitchen? That's what the soft copper looks like.

Just curious, was the flow rate at the plumbing fixtures decent?

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[#7] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 7:02:01 PM
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For what my thoughts on this forum are worth at this point...I was told from ITA training that saddle clamps were a no no on gas lines and waste lines. Ok on water lines as long as they were not on the supply water line.

Regardless, I would write up that the gas line's life span was exhausted and should be replaced.

Dan

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[#8] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 7:32:23 PM
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Quote:Originally posted by IntegrityFirst

For what my thoughts on this forum are worth at this point...I was told from ITA training that saddle clamps were a no no on gas lines and waste lines. Ok on water lines as long as they were not on the supply water line.

Regardless, I would write up that the gas line's life span was exhausted and should be replaced.

Dan


That is a very worthwhile thought. It is entirely correct.

Kurt in Chicago

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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#9] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 7:45:07 PM
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Quote:Originally posted by kurt

Quote:Originally posted by IntegrityFirst

For what my thoughts on this forum are worth at this point...I was told from ITA training that saddle clamps were a no no on gas lines and waste lines. Ok on water lines as long as they were not on the supply water line.

Regardless, I would write up that the gas line's life span was exhausted and should be replaced.

Dan


That is a very worthwhile thought. It is entirely correct.


Thanks Kurt. Humble pie doesn't taste too bad. g]

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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#10] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 8:34:07 PM
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Quote:It looked like a malleable iron clamp with a small copper line coming off of it

It's called a saddle tee, made of galvanized iron.
Quote:You know what, I'll bet that's actually an old galvanized steel water line.

Not so fast. This fitting is quite common here for old gas lighting and is still manufactured and commonly used for outdoor grills.
Quote:...seems to me that I was once told that the sulfur in Natural Gas has a corrosive effect on copper connections.

Type K, Type L & ACR copper tubing are still permitted nationally. Type GAS is the only cu permitted in Canada. In my experience, individual municipalities and utility companies have banned any use of cu for ng fuel distribution.

Bill Kibbel, Historic & Commercial Building Inspections - Old House Resources
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[#11] Posted: 05/08/2004 - 9:39:39 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Konrad

Just curious, was the flow rate at the plumbing fixtures decent?

Yeah, it was okay. Not great, not bad.




Interesting info Bill. There aren't any gas lights involved, but there is a grill out back. In the area where I saw this it's more likely to be for the icemaker, but it may swing back towards the patio. I guess I should have traced it, but it was a tough crawl and I wasn't that struck by it at the time.

Looks like I'll have to write this up as "I really don't know, but whatever it is looks about shot, and if it's gas it's wrong anyway", or words to that effect. Yee-Ha.

Brian G.

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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#12] Posted: 05/10/2004 - 03:49:10 AM
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"Type K, Type L & ACR copper tubing are still permitted nationally. Type GAS is the only cu permitted in Canada. In my experience, individual municipalities and utility companies have banned any use of cu for ng fuel distribution."

I was advised by my gas company that copper (schedule K or heavier) was acceptabled for gas distribution.
As for Brian's photo I'd bet that is water plumbing.
Interestingly, my whole house was plumbed for acetylene in a fashion similar to that w/ gas fixtures in every room. The remnants of the acteylene generator were still in the basement when I moved in and empty calcium carbide containers were stored in the smoke house.

Chad Fabry
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[#13] Posted: 05/10/2004 - 04:51:44 AM
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Quote:Originally posted by Chad Fabry

Interestingly, my whole house was plumbed for acetylene in a fashion similar to that w/ gas fixtures in every room. The remnants of the acteylene generator were still in the basement when I moved in and empty calcium carbide containers were stored in the smoke house.


Wow. Did you take any pictures? I have no idea what an acetylene generator might look like.

Kurt in Chicago

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Saddle Clamp on a Gas Line
[#14] Posted: 05/10/2004 - 05:12:20 AM
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http://membres.lycos.fr/cavala...EcA6.htm

Here's a line drawing of one.. Mine was mostly a pile of rust whose original purpose was determined by a label that stated "Union Carbide acetylene generator." 1918. Only the "scrubber tank" was intact. I've saved it along w/ some other stuff to display in my nearly finished library room. (photos of library coming soon)

Chad Fabry
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[#15] Posted: 05/10/2004 - 06:44:39 AM
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Quote:Originally posted by Chad Fabry

http://membres.lycos.fr/cavala...EcA6.htm

Here's a line drawing of one.. Mine was mostly a pile of rust whose original purpose was determined by a label that stated "Union Carbide acetylene generator." 1918. Only the "scrubber tank" was intact. I've saved it along w/ some other stuff to display in my nearly finished library room. (photos of library coming soon)


I'm curious why these are still not being made. I like the idea of being able to make your own gas. Is it expensive to run one of these and make the gas compared to other energy methods maybe? Was this just used as a back up method of utility when it was being used?

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[#16] Posted: 05/10/2004 - 06:56:00 AM
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They were originally sold to homes that weren't on the gas grid because of their rural locales. The technology was serendipitous in its origin and the timing was off for widespread use. Spelunkers and coal miners more recently used smaller versions for personal lighting.
It's energy intensive to produce calcium carbide making acetylene quite pricey compared to other energy sources.
The final nail in the coffin was a classifcation of calcium carbide as an explosive by the DOT after Timmy McVey's bombing.

Chad Fabry
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[#17] Posted: 05/10/2004 - 07:07:36 AM
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Quote:Originally posted by Chad Fabry

They were originally sold to homes that weren't on the gas grid because of their rural locales. The technology was serendipitous in its origin and the timing was off for widespread use. Spelunkers and coal miners more recently used smaller versions for personal lighting.
It's energy intensive to produce calcium carbide making acetylene quite pricey compared to other energy sources.
The final nail in the coffin was a classifcation of calcium carbide as an explosive by the DOT after Timmy McVey's bombing.


Very interesting! I figured it would have to be something along the lines of cost or efficiency. Well, then there is the last part too. Thanks Chad.

   
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