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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.

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Commerce City, CO
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[#1] Posted: 07/12/2010 - 12:01:56 PM
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I have heard and would like to confirm if this statement is true about flat concrete roof tiles.

After a hail storm and outside of the obvious damaged tiles, that invisible damage occurs to concrete roof tiles that compromise the strength of the tile itself. The hail storm delivered hail sizes ranging pea size to baseball size hail (2.75" diameter). I am now advised by friends that I should hold out for a total new roof instead of a repair job. The adjuster and contractors have found approximately 50-75 cracked and broken tiles. I see no evidence on invisible (micro cracks) on the internet sources including the industry's hail test results.

Can an expert advise me on this?
Thanks
Ted

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Spring Hill (Nashville area), Tennessee
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#2] Posted: 07/12/2010 - 12:33:29 PM
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It can take up to a full year or longer for hail damage to show up on any roof covering. Why? It has to do with the impact of the hail stone causing as you noted internal compaction or damage to the shingle or tile. It can take a full season of weather changes to make the damage visible. The summer heat and then the winter freeze cycle is what really makes this type of hidden damage show. The insurance industry rule of thumb for a roof replacement due to hail strikes are 10 impact points per 10 square feet.
Scott Patterson
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Kenmore, WA
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#3] Posted: 07/12/2010 - 12:34:28 PM
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Hi Ted,

We're plowin' previously untilled ground here. I can't ever remember a discussion about this on this site over the past 8 years, so it's a welcome query. Let's hope some of the brethren from Florida, Arizona or Southern LaLa Land can give us some insight on this issue.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

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Calgary, AB
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#4] Posted: 07/12/2010 - 1:31:43 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by tlopez

I have heard and would like to confirm if this statement is true about flat concrete roof tiles.

After a hail storm and outside of the obvious damaged tiles, that invisible damage occurs to concrete roof tiles that compromise the strength of the tile itself. The hail storm delivered hail sizes ranging pea size to baseball size hail (2.75" diameter). I am now advised by friends that I should hold out for a total new roof instead of a repair job. The adjuster and contractors have found approximately 50-75 cracked and broken tiles. I see no evidence on invisible (micro cracks) on the internet sources including the industry's hail test results.

Can an expert advise me on this?
Thanks
Ted

The crew might find more fractured tiles as they walk the roof so I wouldn't worry about 'invisible' hairline cracks.
I'd replace the damaged tiles this year and revisit the roof next Spring. Over the winter, the weight of the snow and frost action will reveal anything you missed this year.

RC
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#5] Posted: 07/12/2010 - 1:48:44 PM
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To reply to this I have reviewed hail damage data from FM Global, and a third party engineering firm (HAAG Engineering). Both sources state that micro fractures are a myth. Ice ball impact testing has a good amount of history going back to 1952.

I spoke with an associate and between him and me we have probably been on 10K tile roofs. We agree that tiles are either broken or they are not. You could spend a small fortune on Petrographic examination of the tiles themselves and come up with nothing that would be useful to your roof condition. Damaged tiles are easy to fix. I doubt that you have hail related damage to the battens or underlayment. Broken tiles are mainly due to the different types of hail strikes (glancing or direct). The damage is also more prone on one face due to the exposure of the tiles in the storm.

My suggestion to you from an insurance aspect is to not close out the claim in the first year, do the repairs recommended by the insurance company now and let it go through a winter. The adjuster and the underwriter will not like this but you have the right to protect your interests. My opinion on this issue is this does not warrant a total replacement and it is unlikely that you will get it especially if the roof is more than 10 years old.

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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#6] Posted: 07/12/2010 - 9:03:14 PM
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Or you could call HAAG Engineering (Irving, TX) directly and "try" to engage their engineers to do a site visit and analysis. Likely they would 'not' do residential unless you happen to have a boatload of money.

I've been trained by their engineering team and they are extremely good.

HAAG Engineering is one of the most respected roof covering damage analysis organizations there is.

Consider that Mother Nature's "hail" cannot (I repeat: cannot) be replicated, but they have machines that are 'close' ... but still a long ways off.

Insurance companies and roof covering companies utilize them and their engineering background and labs to test products all the time.

It is quite amazing.

They are good and well respected in the industry.

NO ... I didn't just get a spif for the comment. I was just fortunate to be able to get through one of their training classes a couple of years ago and most appreciative of the experience/education.


Cheers,

Nolan E. Kienitz
Nolan's Inspections, LLC
Dallas Home Inspections
http://www.NolansInspections.com
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Calgary, AB
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#7] Posted: 07/12/2010 - 9:55:38 PM
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Cracked tiles are not an engineering matter.
As previously said "They're either broke or they're not."
Consult a competent tile roofer to make the necessary repairs then follow up next Spring.

RC
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Redondo Beach, California
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#8] Posted: 07/13/2010 - 07:02:37 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by Nolan Kienitz

Or you could call HAAG Engineering (Irving, TX) directly and "try" to engage their engineers to do a site visit and analysis. Likely they would 'not' do residential unless you happen to have a boatload of money.



I read a comment by Mike the other day and he basically stated that why defer to a judgment of others. You clearly have faith in HAAG (so do I) and they are already on the record stating that micro cracks are "myth". So for them to go out and do a survey they would walk the roof and pick out the cracked tiles. The down side to this for the owner of the home is HAAG will certainly break down the classes of broken tiles and sort out the number of "hail damaged tiles". What if the owner spends “a boat load of money”, HAAG gets up there and determines that 60 percent of the broken tiles are not hail damage? Is that covered by the insurance policy? The roofing contractor replacing broken tiles does not care what the cause of the broken tile is he just wants to replace all of the broken tiles, and he wants to come back next year for another tune up. Which the insurance will pick up the cost of.



Commerce City, CO
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#9] Posted: 07/13/2010 - 5:02:13 PM
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Wow, I am impressed with the amount of feedback. A big thanks for your time and analysis. Based on the feedback, it is a fair conclusion to fix what is broken, keep the claim open for 1 year or thru next spring and have it inspected again. It is probably best to have a review before we get into hail season again.
Thanks again.
Ted

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Oswego, NY
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#10] Posted: 07/13/2010 - 8:04:53 PM
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Quote: Consider that Mother Nature's "hail" cannot (I repeat: cannot) be replicated, but they have machines that are 'close' ... but still a long ways off.


There must be a good story behind that.
We can't recreate a half melted ice cube that could never be the same from storm to storm anyway, because...........

I'm Gary Blum and I approve this message

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Melbourne, Victoria
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#11] Posted: 07/15/2010 - 06:14:32 AM
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Here in Melbourne we just had probably the worst insurance natural disaster payout ever. It was hail storm damage in the size range of bass balls also. We are still repairing roofs 4 months later. Many roof roofs have been totally replaced by us as an insurance repair. Clay tiles of over 50 years old have been the worst hit roofs. These tiles shatter and although we and insurance are awAre that the tiles are weak, they are replaced anyway.
Back to your problem, I think it would be safe to assume that cracked cement tiles can be located straight away via a thorough roof inspection.

Good luck.

Melbourne Roofing Restorations
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Gaston, Oregon
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Hail Damage to Flat Concrete Roof Tiles.
[#12] Posted: 07/15/2010 - 10:31:33 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by thomop

Here in Melbourne we just had probably the worst insurance natural disaster payout ever. It was hail storm damage in the size range of bass balls . . .


Well, that doesn't seem all that large for hail. Unless Austrailian Bass are much larger than North American Bass.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Jim Katen, Oregon
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