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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB

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[#1] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 6:31:58 PM
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Ran into a nonbearing partition wall (between kitchen and laundry room) parallel with the floor joists but NOT on a joist. Floor looks to be sinking towards the wall on the laundry room side. Can't see other side as refrigerator and cabinetry block floor view.

I thought even nonbearing walls should be on a joist when parallel with the joists.

Your thoughts.

No picture to show it.

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Erby Crofutt
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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#2] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 6:43:05 PM
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You really should only need flat nailers between the joists to fasten it with. I never heard of it having to be on a joist.
Maybe I'm going to learn another new requirement.

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#3] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 7:25:59 PM
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Remember, it's not crossing the joists. It's parallel with the joists.
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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#4] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 7:38:25 PM
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Even if it's not a bearing wall it IS transferring a load to the floor system. If it doesn't have a joist (or, really, doubled joists) under it problems such as you found are likely. After all, w/o joists under the wall the full load is carried only by the subfloor.
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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#5] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 8:08:57 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by AHI in AR

Even if it's not a bearing wall it IS transferring a load to the floor system. If it doesn't have a joist (or, really, doubled joists) under it problems such as you found are likely. After all, w/o joists under the wall the full load is carried only by the subfloor.


Ok, but what are we talking about here? 100lbs 200? How much weight PSF? Not much.

Quote: Remember, it's not crossing joists. It's parallel with the joists.


I am. That's why I'm talking about putting the flat nailers between the ceiling joists. Sorry I didn't say ceiling joists the first time. The floor shouldn't have any problem supporting that kind of spread out weight.

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#6] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 8:25:37 PM
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In this situation, if we were joistin' a lower floor, and the next story floor plan showed a wall running parallel to the joists, if we didn't think that wall would end up directly over a joist, we'd install solid 2X purlins about 4' on centers between the lower floor joists running along either side of the upper wall. Also, we'd install a line or two of purlins perpendicular to the floor joists to help distribute any incidental load that might end up on that wall. That was Atlanta in the early 90's, I don't know what they do today or elsewhere.

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#7] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 8:38:22 PM
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There's got to be blocking, at least. Other reinforcement might apply, but I can't be sure without pics.


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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#8] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 9:01:06 PM
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How old is this place?
I tend to go right into the remodel train of thought. Newer materials and builds are completely different when it comes to this stuff, in my mind.

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#9] Posted: 11/01/2010 - 10:32:28 PM
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What you're seeing is "normal" when the first laundry room floor joist away from the wall supports half the dead load of the wall and no additional dead load, and the joist(s) on the kitchen side support the added dead load of the refrig and cabinets. Really makes the sag show up.

As Kurt said. the dead load of the wall framing and drywall should, at the least be carried to the two adjoining floor joists by blocking. This is good framing. Really good framing would recognize the added dead load and call for double joist under the added dead load.

Most designers don't design really good framing.

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#10] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 05:04:26 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by Erby

Ran into a nonbearing partition wall (between kitchen and laundry room) parallel with the floor joists but NOT on a joist. Floor looks to be sinking towards the wall on the laundry room side. Can't see other side as refrigerator and cabinetry block floor view.

I thought even nonbearing walls should be on a joist when parallel with the joists.

Your thoughts.

No picture to show it.


Erby, you mentioned that the sheathing is OSB, but do you know what size and if it's T&G? 3/4" T&G is pretty tough stuff. It's hard to imagine it sagging in a 14 1/2" joist space (assuming the joists are 16"o.c.). If the entire floor is sagging, it may be a different problem all together

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#11] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 05:23:52 AM
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OSB sags when it's point loaded like that, especially when it gets wet. It's pretty easy to imagine it getting wet with a kitchen on one side and a laundry on the other. If neither the designer nor the framer thought of that I'm sure they never considered the added load of the kitchen cabinets.
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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#12] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 05:31:28 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by kurt


There's got to be blocking, at least. Other reinforcement might apply, but I can't be sure without pics.




This ^

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#13] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 05:43:31 AM
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Oh! The wall is sitting on OSB, and has loaded cabinets hung on it too?

Here I am thinking it was nothing but a partition holding only it's own weight. Got it now.

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#14] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 06:23:26 AM
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All things being "normal" for frame construction, blocking and/or a double joist, or blocking hung on doubled joists.


Kurt in Chicago

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Nonbearing wall supported by OSB
[#15] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 07:10:24 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by Tom Raymond

OSB sags when it's point loaded like that, especially when it gets wet. It's pretty easy to imagine it getting wet with a kitchen on one side and a laundry on the other. If neither the designer nor the framer thought of that I'm sure they never considered the added load of the kitchen cabinets.


The load from the cabinets is an excellent point. I didn't think of that. Here's a pretty good reference regarding residential framing. It shows doubling up the joists on non-load bearing partitions.

http://www.awc.org/pdf/wcd1-300.pdf

   
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