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Deck Ledger Board Fasteners

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[#1] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 3:03:31 PM
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This deck ledger board was fastened below the home's band joist directly to the concrete block foundation wall. There was insulation on the interior wall at this attachment point, so determining if these were through-bolts was not possible.

Are there fasteners available that are approved for attaching a deck ledger board to a concrete block wall, that would not have to pass through the wall?



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Dave Tontarski
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Deck Ledger Board Fasteners
[#2] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 3:10:39 PM
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If that's cored block, which it probably is, what are the bolts hanging onto? (Nothing.)

1/2" double hot dipped galvanized bolts (or stainless) through the block, steel plate on the inside.

I'd consider that minimum, maybe more depending on particulars.


Kurt in Chicago

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Deck Ledger Board Fasteners
[#3] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 4:16:01 PM
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In this area, it depends on the municipality.

I have several townships' residential deck construction specifications. Most have an approved method of fastening a ledger to hollow CMU walls.

If the cells of the blocks are filled with grout, expansion anchors can be used. If the cells remain hollow, specific epoxy anchors can be used. One municipality limits the size of the deck for epoxy anchors.

Bill Kibbel, Historic & Commercial Building Inspections - Old House Resources
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Deck Ledger Board Fasteners
[#4] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 4:31:08 PM
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Dave,
Those look like the nuts on the threaded end.
Am I seeing that wrong?

I'm Gary Blum and I approve this message

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[#5] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 6:41:28 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by gtblum

Dave,
Those look like the nuts on the threaded end.
Am I seeing that wrong?


Could be these maybe. http://www.itw-redhead.com/dyn...od01.asp"

ABI Home Services
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[#6] Posted: 11/02/2010 - 6:54:41 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by Ben H

Quote: Originally posted by gtblum

Dave,
Those look like the nuts on the threaded end.
Am I seeing that wrong?


Could be these maybe. http://www.itw-redhead.com/dyn...od01.asp"


I think I'll go pull my head out of my ass now that I re-read EVERYTHING.
Have a great night.





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[#7] Posted: 11/03/2010 - 02:02:57 AM
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Thanks of all of the responses.

Kurt - yes that was what I was thinking, but without moving stored items and removing insulation, I could not verify.

Bill - Thanks - I will call the town today and see if they can shed any light on this. Thousands of decks inspected, and this is the first one I've seen attached to blocks.

Ben - Thanks for the link. This could be what I'm seeing.

Gary - Just when we thought we'd seen it all - as if we will ever - Shoveling snow yet?


Dave Tontarski
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[#8] Posted: 11/03/2010 - 05:55:09 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by dtontarski

Thanks of all of the responses.

Kurt - yes that was what I was thinking, but without moving stored items and removing insulation, I could not verify.

Bill - Thanks - I will call the town today and see if they can shed any light on this. Thousands of decks inspected, and this is the first one I've seen attached to blocks.

Ben - Thanks for the link. This could be what I'm seeing.

Gary - Just when we thought we'd seen it all - as if we will ever - Shoveling snow yet?


Snow this coming weekend, Dave.

In a million years, I would have never dreamed someone would try to hang a deck on a block wall with Kwik bolts. Cored or not.
Ever over tighten one? They wreck stuff.

I'm Gary Blum and I approve this message

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[#9] Posted: 11/03/2010 - 06:24:49 AM
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Gary -

I'll post what I learn from the local AHJ.

I grew up in Watertown....bring it on.....it makes tracking easier.

Dave

Dave Tontarski
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Deck Ledger Board Fasteners
[#10] Posted: 11/03/2010 - 06:52:30 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by dtontarski

Gary -

I'll post what I learn from the local AHJ.

I grew up in Watertown....bring it on.....it makes tracking easier.

Dave


So far, I've somehow managed to not buy a license in protest of the greedy State of NY and their increase. Usually, I'd have had three weeks in your old back yard by now. Barnes corners area. We get a dusting of snow compared to that area.

Back to the bolts. If you want to find out if they're kwik bolts, take a wrench and crank one up. If it is one, It'll either strip itself out of the hole, or blow the block apart. LOL!

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Deck Ledger Board Fasteners
[#11] Posted: 11/03/2010 - 08:44:28 AM
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UPDATE:

I just spoke to the AHJ. They review this situation on a case-by-case basis and allow a variety of methods, including those previously documented in this thread.

I'm passing on the AHJ contact info. to my client.

Does anyone trace permitted work themselves - as an added value to their clients? This seems quite a bit beyond customer expectations and SOP's, but I was wondering about opinions on this.

Other:

Gary - I feel your pain...the expense of living in this state is out of control. Fortunately - or unfortunately (I like to think positive) I'm a disabled vet and get a break on my license, but I was shocked by the increases when I purchased by son's license this year.

I won't be in the field until opening day of shotgun southern tier this year as well.

Good Hunting!

Dave Tontarski
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[#12] Posted: 11/03/2010 - 6:40:21 PM
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Simpson does have a product to attach ledgers to hollow blocks.
http://www.simpsonanchors.com/...esh.html
I discovered it in their deck building basics online tutorial course.

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[#13] Posted: 11/04/2010 - 01:50:06 AM
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Cliff -

Thanks for the link. Yet another interesting product. An inspector can never have enough bookmarked sites.


Dave Tontarski
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[#14] Posted: 02/20/2011 - 07:34:48 AM
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Wide variety of connectors are available to connect a wood (or steel) ledger to concrete and concrete block. Some have been noted by previous commentators.

For concrete, a bolt with polymer adhesive / epoxy would be one way. Tapcon screw connector is another type that may be cost effective. Key to use of any of these products is proper installation. Potential for corrosion must be carefully considered.

Deck ledger boards should not be connected to brick veneer.......which (per longstanding code prohibition) should not support any vertical load other than self-weight (that is, weight of brick above).

Based on my experience.......we have, unfortunately, a fair number of deck collapses in New Jersey every year (think Jersey Shore house parties). Majority of deck collapses are due to inadequate connection between deck and wall of house, using ledger board. These so-called "accidents" are due to grossly inadequate connection strength.......with corrosion contributing to the general problem.

All-too-many code officials........taking the position that they are "helping" owners avoid cost of engineer......simply let owners and contractors build decks without any formal design. The vast majority of such decks perform fine........some because they are built strong.......but many because they are never really tested by loading for which they should be designed. When such deck is eventually tested.......during a party......the risk that should have been apparent from the start is suddenly revealed.


John F Mann, PE
   
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