| Posted By |
|
|
|
| |
 |
Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 3458
Joined: May, 2007
|  offline
|
|
|
|
| |
 |
Ridgewood, NJ
Posts: 949
Joined: Sep, 2002
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#2] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 04:01:33 AM |  |  |
|
Your sure that service is only 60 amps? That type of fuse box might have separate lugs at the bottom to tap into into and install a subpanel box.
|
Neal Lewis
www.totalhomeinspectionservices.com |
| |
|
|
| |
 |
Louisville, KY
Posts: 1234
Joined: Jan, 2010
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#3] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 04:50:53 AM | | |
|
At 120v, and 1750 watt, you should be pulling 14.5 amp. Have you tried the microwave just to see if it does blow a fuse? I'm with you are far as having a 20 amp line, just saying you may not have to.
|
ABI Home Services
Louisville KY Home Inspector
|
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 3458
Joined: May, 2007
| offline
|
|
|
|
| |
 |
Lafayette, Louisiana
Posts: 3846
Joined: Nov, 2009
| offline
|
|
 circuit for microwave
[#5] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 05:17:55 AM | | |
|
John, how much tonnage has the AC in your house? Will there be any other 240V loads besides the new microwave, AC and air compressor when you're done?
Sourcing the single pole microwave circuit at 2 pole breaker is not a safe way to do that.
Marc
|
"If Guam gets too overpopulated, it might tip over."
Congressman Hank Johnson (D) GA |
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 3458
Joined: May, 2007
| offline
|
|
|
|
| | |
|
Lafayette, Louisiana
Posts: 3846
Joined: Nov, 2009
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#7] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 07:10:01 AM | | |
|
Because 2 pole breakers (240 Volt) are listed only for 2 pole service.
Install a new 20A, 120V breaker in your main panel if you have an empty slot available. If not, maybe a duplex breaker (2-120V breakers in one slot), or even upgrade the feeder to the sub to 4 wires and use that for the micro.
Another option is to install an additional sub.
Marc
|
"If Guam gets too overpopulated, it might tip over."
Congressman Hank Johnson (D) GA |
| |
|
|
| |
 |
Collins, NY
Posts: 3138
Joined: Apr, 2008
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#8] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 10:50:23 AM | | |
|
John, it sounds like you're remodeling this place backwards. Quit working around obstacles and gut that place already. A new service and a rewire will be real easy then.
|
Tom
http://clearcreekhomeinspection.com/
Life is tough enough as it is, it's tougher when your stupid. Don't do stupid things.
Dr Joe Lstiburek |
| |
|
|
| |
 |
Victoria, British Columbia
Posts: 2391
Joined: Nov, 2009
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#9] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 12:29:24 PM | | |
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Marc
Because 2 pole breakers (240 Volt) are listed only for 2 pole service.
Install a new 20A, 120V breaker in your main panel if you have an empty slot available. If not, maybe a duplex breaker (2-120V breakers in one slot), or even upgrade the feeder to the sub to 4 wires and use that for the micro.
Another option is to install an additional sub.
Marc
He's got an antique fuse panel there. Not likely there's any space to add a breaker of any kind.
He does not want to go from the sub, because it is installed wrong, double tapped off the service conductor connections. I think that's the feeder to the sub leaving the panel on the left ? and if so, it is already 4 wire.
John, I'm with Tom, replace the service with a larger rated panel (200 A). Install a 60 amp main breaker in it for now. When cash flow allows, have the service increased to 200 Amp.
You can repair the feed to the subpanel, which I assume is a breaker panel, modern-like?
If you have #8 or #6 installed to the sub, then you can remove the double taps and connect that feeder to the fuse pull where you have the 20's for the compressor now. Replace the 20's with 40 or 60 amp cartridge fuses.
Then you can run the new micro circuit and the compressor and other circuits from the sub with new breakers. You'll be that much closer to an upgraded system.
|
| www.allsafehome.ca |
| |
|
|
| |
 |
Gaston, Oregon
Posts: 8080
Joined: Dec, 2003
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#10] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 4:18:39 PM | | |
|
Post a picture of both panels with their covers removed.
- Jim Katen, Oregon
|
Jim Katen, Oregon
www.amipdx.com |
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 3458
Joined: May, 2007
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#11] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 9:39:38 PM | | |
|
I figured it out. I was wrong when I earlier stated that the sub panel wan not covered by the main. After a quick study of the schematic on the main panel (shoulda done that first), the sub feeder lugs are after the 60amp main fuses so the main fuses protect the SEC from everything the house can dish out. Furthermore, every circuit has the correct size breaker or fuse for the conductors they feed.
Now I'm not afraid to go into the sub to find a place for the new microwave. There's a position in the sub that serves hard wired smoke alarms that I put in not too long ago. I'll move the smoke alarm feed into the main panel and pigtail it wherever since it draws next to nothing. Then, I'll install a BR 20amp breaker in that position in the sub for the microwave.
I know it's best to get an upgrade and that is on the list. For now, I don't believe I'm doing things backwards. I'm making extra effort to make sure things are balanced and safe for the equipment I currently have.
The time spent making things work with an older system has given me a new understanding of how electrical systems work and why it's important to keep things balanced.
My panel is crowded. However, it's balanced and properly fused. It's working fine.
main panel label
Click to View
63 KB
sub panel label
Click to View
54.06 KB
Click to View
49.69 KB
Click to View
62.41 KB
Click to View
71.09 KB
Click to View
66.03 KB
Click to View
66.42 KB
|
John Dirks Jr - Arundel Home Inspection LLC - MD license: 29827
Maryland Home Inspectors - Maryland Home Inspection - Maryland Radon Testing - Baltimore County Rental Inspection
|
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Victoria, British Columbia
Posts: 2391
Joined: Nov, 2009
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#12] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 10:38:50 PM | | |
|
That plan gets my approval. I was picturing a mess worse than that.
Now that we know what you've got, including a picture of Kristen, could you move those wires?  maybe Jim can tell us if you can go back to plan A and use one of the 20 amp fuses, provided you disconnected the compressor?
|
| www.allsafehome.ca |
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Gaston, Oregon
Posts: 8080
Joined: Dec, 2003
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#13] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 10:52:45 PM | | |
|
I'm slammed this evening. All I've got time for this minute is to say that you have a 100-amp service with copper SECs.
- Jim Katen, Oregon, back to work.
|
Jim Katen, Oregon
www.amipdx.com |
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 3458
Joined: May, 2007
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#14] Posted: 04/04/2011 - 10:52:57 PM | | |
|
Quote: Originally posted by John KogelThat plan gets my approval. I was picturing a mess worse than that. Now that we know what you've got, including a picture of Kristen, could you move those wires? maybe Jim can tell us if you can go back to plan A and use one of the 20 amp fuses, provided you disconnected the compressor?
Kristen...The Baltimore Ravens Cheerleader who used to work out in the same gym we belonged to years ago. Seems like I remember putting in extra effort workouts whenever she was there.
http://www.baltimoreravens.com...n_D.aspx
|
John Dirks Jr - Arundel Home Inspection LLC - MD license: 29827
Maryland Home Inspectors - Maryland Home Inspection - Maryland Radon Testing - Baltimore County Rental Inspection
|
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 3458
Joined: May, 2007
| offline
|
|
|
|
| | |
|
Ridgewood, NJ
Posts: 949
Joined: Sep, 2002
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#16] Posted: 04/05/2011 - 04:01:57 AM | | |
|
John, looking at the size of the Service cable entering at the top right of the panel, it looks like a 100 amp service to me. You don't see too many 60 amp service cables that aren't 50+ years old and cloth jacketed. And they're usaully tin clad copper.
|
Neal Lewis
www.totalhomeinspectionservices.com |
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Lafayette, Louisiana
Posts: 3846
Joined: Nov, 2009
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#17] Posted: 04/05/2011 - 04:56:16 AM | | |
|
You need a #2 aluminum or copper clad aluminum to get a 100 amp service as per Table E3503.1, 06' IRC.
In either case, I'd say that John doesn't have to worry about his service being too small for right now, even with the new micro.
Marc
|
"If Guam gets too overpopulated, it might tip over."
Congressman Hank Johnson (D) GA |
| |
|
|
| | |
|
Ridgewood, NJ
Posts: 949
Joined: Sep, 2002
| offline
|
|
|
|
| | |
|
Victoria, British Columbia
Posts: 2391
Joined: Nov, 2009
| offline
|
|
|
|
| | |
|
Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 3458
Joined: May, 2007
| offline
|
|
|
|
| | |
|
Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 3458
Joined: May, 2007
| offline
|
|
circuit for microwave
[#21] Posted: 04/05/2011 - 3:23:36 PM | | |
|
Quote: Originally posted by John KogelQuote: Originally posted by Neal Lewis
John, looking at the size of the Service cable entering at the top right of the panel, it looks like a 100 amp service to me. You don't see too many 60 amp service cables that aren't 50+ years old and cloth jacketed. And they're usually tin clad copper.
Those are odd-looking conductors, but that stranded grounding conductor looks like Al. At least from here. John, if you have trouble or expense finding a breaker, you could replace that whole subpanel with a nice new breaker panel. We're not worried about the fuses, but those breakers are antiques. You could temporarily feed the new panel with the 60 amps from your main panel. Then you'd have plenty of space for new kitchen circuits when you do the rest of the kitchen upgrade.
That sounds like a good idea and I might do it eventually. For now I'll just pigtail the smoke alarms to the other side 15amp breaker which currently only serves a few receptacles in the basement. I already picked up a 20 amp breaker for the micro and I'll install it where the 15 amp smoke alarm breaker was.
This old Sears sub was installed in the early 70's. It accepts Cutler Hammer BR type breakers so getting replacements is not a problem.
I have a question about time delay cartridge fuses. My mains are 60 amp and currently not time delay. Even though I have things well balanced and have not had trouble blowing mains, if I switched to time delay mains, how many extra amps do they let slip by and for what period of time before they blow?
|
John Dirks Jr - Arundel Home Inspection LLC - MD license: 29827
Maryland Home Inspectors - Maryland Home Inspection - Maryland Radon Testing - Baltimore County Rental Inspection
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
