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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly

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[#1] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 05:16:48 AM
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New(ish) roof. Dimensional shingles. I couldn't get an answer on what brand, though it seems it really doesn't matter. I checked the install manual for OC, Certainteed, and GAF. They all are basically the same.

I've got what looks like a dimensional roof installed like a 3 tab. You can see the break line every other shingle. All the install guides I read says to use a 4-5 staggered course, so you don't have a solid line that runs up the roof.

What say you?



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ABI Home Services
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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#2] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 05:26:33 AM
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It's wrong no matter if it's architectural or three tab.
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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#3] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 05:31:08 AM
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I have a feeling I'm going to have to butt heads with the contractor on this one. He had 'his' roofer, who did the install come out and look at it and of course he said it's fine. Big shocker there. The buyer is a real nice guy out of Denver trying to sort things out over the phone.

There are no signs of leaks, and it's a few years old. So what are the problems that can/will happen when it's botched like this. Cosmetic only?

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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#4] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 05:36:56 AM
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But is it leaking?... (Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.)

Actually, I haven't had an agent hit me with that line in years - progress!

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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#5] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 05:38:40 AM
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It's likely cosmetic only. The same pattern on 3 tab is common practice.

Marc

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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#6] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 05:44:30 AM
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I would not butt heads, I would simply provide the intsall instructions and say its not done right, I don't know if it will leak or not. The manufacturer's warrenty will not apply of it does leak, because it is not done right.
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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#7] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 06:09:02 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by Marc

It's likely cosmetic only. The same pattern on 3 tab is common practice.

Marc


That doesn't make it right. If the roofer is too lazy to lay out the shingles right, what else did he screw up.

Tom

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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#8] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 06:52:58 AM
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It's called the vertical racking method and it's generally allowed with single-thickness shingles such as 3-tabs.

The advantage is that it's faster for the installer if he has a big crew because, instead of having to cover the roof row by row, he can cover the roof in vertical columns.

The disadvantage is that, in each column, you have to lift up and bend back one shingle every other row to nail the shingle below it. (Hard to describe, sorry.) With 3-tab shingles, this isn't much of a problem, but with laminated ones it can damage the shingle because they don't bend well. So either you damage every other shingle at the end of each column or, if you're a particularly lazy roofer, you omit the nail at every other shingle at the end of each column.

It doesn't cause anything to leak. At least not until the shingle damage or lack of nails manifest themselves years later.

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[#9] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 07:30:04 AM
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Jim's right on. The buyers sent my pics to a roofer here in town (not the guy who did the install) and he called the racking install as well.

If I interpreted his email correctly, although not a common practice with laminated, it really won't cause much of a problem as long as they are sealed well.


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[#10] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 07:34:31 AM
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Huh.........learned something new.......


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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#11] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 07:53:26 AM
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This might help some

http://www.mtnhighinspections...._24.html

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[#12] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 08:10:09 AM
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When I was roofer in a former life we called it booking, and only did it on roof overs and only with 3 tabs. It always looked like crap, you could see every column where each installer varied the exposure. I would frequently double nail the overlapped tab since it was way faster than lifting it-I was a teenager, I didn't know any better and the boss didn't care.
Tom

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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#13] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 10:33:18 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by Tom Raymond

When I was roofer in a former life we called it booking, and only did it on roof overs and only with 3 tabs. It always looked like crap, you could see every column where each installer varied the exposure. I would frequently double nail the overlapped tab since it was way faster than lifting it-I was a teenager, I didn't know any better and the boss didn't care.
So where are all your former roofs now?

I agree, that roofer was in a rush and did it the quick and easy way. There could be hidden problems, like missing underlay, missing nails, nails too short, poor flashing, etc. All we can do now is warn the client of possible future problems.

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[#14] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 3:31:54 PM
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In traffic the other day I saw a van with one of those entire coverage stickers portraying a crew roofing a house without underlayment felt! DOH!

Suggested slogan "We can do it cheaper cause we cut corners"

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[#15] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 3:43:45 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by ericwlewis

In traffic the other day I saw a van with one of those entire coverage stickers portraying a crew roofing a house without underlayment felt! DOH!

Suggested slogan "We can do it cheaper cause we cut corners"


No pic?

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[#16] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 3:56:04 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by John Kogel

[quote]So where are all your former roofs now?



Well; we used IKO, and I left that company in '91 when I fell of a ladder and wrecked my back. Their 25 year shingle generally lasts about 15 years so any of them that are still in service would be mighty thin.

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[#17] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 4:58:58 PM
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The photo is from a house I looked at this afternoon. Both topics raised in this thread are visible. Pure junk, but totally permissible.



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[#18] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 5:15:53 PM
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NY requires underlayment and ice and water shield- it's code.
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[#19] Posted: 05/12/2011 - 5:34:49 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by Chad Fabry

NY requires underlayment and ice and water shield- it's code.



My brother, Kentucky isn't New York . . . in so many ways. But you know that.

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[#20] Posted: 05/13/2011 - 05:04:17 AM
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Quote: My brother, Kentucky isn't New York . . . in so many ways. But you know that.


Where I live, property taxes 0n a $250K house are just about exactly $10K a year.

State income tax for most of us hovers in the 15% range.

Sales tax in my county is 8%

Electricity just bumped over 15 cents a kwh.

Having big brother oversee things like residential roofing practices ends up being a very, very expensive proposition.

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[#21] Posted: 05/13/2011 - 05:10:14 AM
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I feel a solid thread drift forming...
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[#22] Posted: 05/13/2011 - 10:36:02 AM
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I remember an article in JLC about a decade ago where a contractor explained how he uses that method and what he does to ensure it remains leak-free. I don't have time to do it now, but if I have time and remember it this evening, I'll see what I can dig up tonight.

If any of you are JLCOnline members or have the JLC Archive CD that encompasses the last decade, you can probably find it before I can.

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[#23] Posted: 05/13/2011 - 11:16:30 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by Bain

The photo is from a house I looked at this afternoon. Both topics raised in this thread are visible. Pure junk, but totally permissible.



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I drive by a house every day of the week with a roof that was installed exactly like that, more than twentyfive years ago. It's starting to show it's age, but still looks fine.

When my friend (the roofer) and I did it, I told him he was out of his mind and we were going to be back there every year to fix it.

Never once got a call.

I'm Gary Blum and I approve this message

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Dimensional shingles installed incorrectly
[#24] Posted: 05/13/2011 - 4:57:35 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by gtblum

Quote: Originally posted by Bain

The photo is from a house I looked at this afternoon. Both topics raised in this thread are visible. Pure junk, but totally permissible.



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I drive by a house every day of the week with a roof that was installed exactly like that, more than twentyfive years ago. It's starting to show it's age, but still looks fine.

When my friend (the roofer) and I did it, I told him he was out of his mind and we were going to be back there every year to fix it.

Never once got a call.


Like so much that we see, some things can be ill conceived or poorly wrought, yet they've been that way for years and have performed just fine. It makes the job tougher . . . seeing something that's dopey or wrong, but realizing, too, that it isn't going to cause any problems.

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[#25] Posted: 05/13/2011 - 6:21:00 PM
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Quote: Like so much that we see, some things can be ill conceived or poorly wrought, yet they've been that way for years and have performed just fine. It makes the job tougher . . . seeing something that's dopey or wrong, but realizing, too, that it isn't going to cause any problems.



That said, 90% of the losses I wrote while I was doing the FEMA gig after Katrina and Rita wouldn't have been losses if ice and water shield was on the entire roof deck.

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[#26] Posted: 05/13/2011 - 6:50:30 PM
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Just about every problem I see with roofing could be solved with IWS.

About 99% of the IWS installs I see are wrong, i.e., the IWS doesn't wrap behind the gutter. Or, it doesn't extend high enough up the roof. Or, they put it at the eaves, but didn't wrap the skylite curbs, etc., etc., etc......


Kurt in Chicago

"If I smell it, it goes in the report".............Phillip Smith...2012


 
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