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Gervais, Oregon
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Kenmore, WA
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Another POS house
[#2] Posted: 08/13/2007 - 09:14:59 AM |  |  |
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I'd say something like, "The framing under this house is such a cobbled-together mess that, even if I had all day, I don't think I could properly evaluate it for you. You're going to need to have a professional engineer examine the sub-structure of this home to determine what corrections, if any, can be made effectively. Once you have the PE's report, contact some reputable contractors to find out what the PE's recommended fixes are going to cost you."
OT - OF!!!
M.
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Chicago, IL
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 Another POS house
[#3] Posted: 08/13/2007 - 09:45:52 AM | | |
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Leveling a floor that's 6" out isn't usually possible without gutting the house, at least not in my experience.
When you start pumping the 50 ton jacks to level a floor, you blow the whole place to hell and back; plaster blows off walls, framing explodes, etc.
I remember my first experience w/this. I was about 14, down in the crawlspace w/a half dozen 50 ton hydraulics, and we thought we'd just level the DR floor by pushing it back up to level. We started pumping away slowly, things seemed like they were moving, then we heard something that sounded like someone tossed a grenade.
Plaster had blown off the bearing wall all the way across the room & hit the exterior wall (about 14'); if anyone had been standing there, they'd have been creamed.
The bearing wall studs had simply exploded outward; the floor never really got level. Maybe we got it up 3/4", but that's about it. When it takes several decades for something to "flow" into position, it's not going back in a weekend.
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Kurt in Chicago
"If I smell it, it goes in the report".............Phillip Smith...2012
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Jefferson Twp., NJ
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Joined: Apr, 2005
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Another POS house
[#4] Posted: 08/13/2007 - 3:56:08 PM | | |
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| Quote: Originally posted by kurt
Leveling a floor that's 6" out isn't usually possible without gutting the house, at least not in my experience.
When you start pumping the 50 ton jacks to level a floor, you blow the whole place to hell and back; plaster blows off walls, framing explodes, etc.
I remember my first experience w/this. I was about 14, down in the crawlspace w/a half dozen 50 ton hydraulics, and we thought we'd just level the DR floor by pushing it back up to level. We started pumping away slowly, things seemed like they were moving, then we heard something that sounded like someone tossed a grenade.
Plaster had blown off the bearing wall all the way across the room & hit the exterior wall (about 14'); if anyone had been standing there, they'd have been creamed.
The bearing wall studs had simply exploded outward; the floor never really got level. Maybe we got it up 3/4", but that's about it. When it takes several decades for something to "flow" into position, it's not going back in a weekend.
Kurt is right on target here.
I remember a house years ago. Built in the 20's, second story floor joists for two large rooms converged and sat on a wall that had an 8' opening between it's two rooms on the first floor. Due to the upstairs floor doing a funnel impression we pull of the plaster on the downstairs to see that the header is comprised of two 2x4's turned flat (gotta love it). The 3) 2x12's we used as a temp. header to jack under only hit the middle three joists, the ends were over 4" low... Pushing everything back up was done over 3-4 weeks... Bout a 1/2" or less every few days then let it settle in. In the end there was still about an inch of space between the ends of the header and the last joists. That was all she would go and we shimmed the rest. Six inches of settling? Now thats a project.
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Kyle Kubs
Benchmark Home Inspection Services
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Kenmore, WA
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Another POS house
[#5] Posted: 08/13/2007 - 6:44:18 PM | | |
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Somewhere in here is a story about a floor that my brother and I had to flatten in 1973 in a 150 year old house. You can probably find the article if you word-search the site for Hughie. Ever since then, I always warn folks about trying to jack up and flatten floors.
ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!
Mike
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Gervais, Oregon
Posts: 1258
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Another POS house
[#6] Posted: 08/13/2007 - 9:55:59 PM | | |
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So concerns about trying to flatten a floor in a house are more tricky then raising an already sound house off of its foundation?
It sounds like deformations by themselves don't justify correction just because they are out of plumb. There has to be an underlying concern that whatever has caused the deformation might still be active?
So if you see a 2" slope in the floor to the middle of a house lets say and you can see new work that satisfactorily supports the floor then report what your see but you wouldn't recommend that the floor be necessarily flattened ?
When if ever would you recommend flattening a floor that is otherwise properly supported?
Chris, Oregon
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Gaston, Oregon
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Another POS house
[#7] Posted: 08/14/2007 - 01:12:49 AM | | |
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt
. . . In cases like this where everything is out of level but appears to be (theres that weaselly phrase again) supported what do I tell the client to do? Call in an structural engineer to figure it out?
"Hire a carpenter working under the guidance of a structural engineer to repair and relevel the floor " Something like that?
Chris, Oregon
If it's bad enough, yes, I'll call for a PE. Otherwise, I'll just recommend a good contractor.
When I find myself inspecting places like this, it's a sign that I need to raise my prices.
Oh, yes, I also agree that trying to jack up a mess like this will just make a bigger mess. Out here in Gaston several years ago, two brothers tried to straighten out such a house. One was under the house adjusting the jacks while the other was up top yelling directions. The whole house shifted sideways and landed on the brother in the crawlspace. It took some quick chainsaw work to get him out whereupon he grabbed a 2x4 and attacked the up-top brother. Fortunately, his cracked ribs and punctured lung prevented him from doing any real harm to his sibling.
Gaston, what a great town.
- Jim Katen, Oregon
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Jim Katen, Oregon
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Chicago, IL
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Boston, Mass.
Posts: 250
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Another POS house
[#9] Posted: 08/14/2007 - 10:33:21 AM | | |
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1950s house across the street from me sank/tilted about 8".Bean bag realtor lady had kids jack the back of the house to level. Broke most of the windows-could not get the doors to work. Chimney sprang off of the house--Fire Chief condemned. Came down the next day.
Real contractors came in and "fixed" the house. Took them 3 weeks-new windows/doors and new chimney/fireplace and more?
I confined my laughter to my cellar office behind two closed doors. That was 25 years ago-still brings a smile to this old inspector boy. 
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Jack Ahern Boston on the Charles and Bridgton,Maine
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