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Allowable holes in TJIs

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[#1] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 2:15:51 PM
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I've searched and read the downloads about allowable notches in TJI joist and I cant make heads or tails of it. This is what I got 16" TJIs with 8" flex duct several electrical lines water lines ETC. running through them. I see it is allwoable to cut holes in TJIs but check out these pics

This is the living room where all the cuts are kinda a bad pic now that i look at it but I think you can see it.

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55.3 KBand tell me what u think. It seams like ALOT of holes in the joist and 8" duct that is half the size of the joist.

This is the ductwork coming thorugh the beam and joist the builder says he has a structural letter on the beam from the engineer.

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62.32 KB

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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#2] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 2:36:09 PM
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Go here for the pocket manual and save it to your hard drive (I printed it out and have it my truck for quick reference too). Should have all the information you need.
Terry



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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#3] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 2:49:15 PM
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Thanks Terry that is what I looked at before I posted. I dont really get the allowable holes but I do see that you can put bigger than a 8" hole in the TJI. I think I will just report it to the buyer give him that link and refer to builder to make sure everything is with in the manufaters allowables holes.
Thanks

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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#4] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 2:59:14 PM
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Those are Weyerhaeuser's I-level TJI 230s. It's real easy to find the answers if you get the needed information on-site.

What are the dimensions of the holes?

How far are the holes from the inside face of nearest end supports?
Quote: This is the ductwork coming thorugh the beam and joist the builder says he has a structural letter on the beam from the engineer.
Have them give you or the buyer this letter (with the engineer's seal on it).

Bill Kibbel, Historic & Commercial Building Inspections - Old House Resources
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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#5] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 3:08:55 PM
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You really have a mishmash there. The second pic looks like they took a few liberties however it's hard to tell measurement from a pic.
Terry



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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#6] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 3:14:58 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by inspecthistoric

Those are Weyerhaeuser's I-level TJI 230s. It's real easy to find the answers if you get the needed information on-site.

What are the dimensions of the holes?

How far are the holes from the inside face of nearest end supports?
Quote: This is the ductwork coming thorugh the beam and joist the builder says he has a structural letter on the beam from the engineer.
Have them give you or the buyer this letter (with the engineer's seal on it).


Thanks for the reply I will look at the chart a bit harder.

The bigest hole is about 8" big enough to let the ductwork through with several smaller 1-2-3" holes for drain lines electrial wires ETC.

I did request that the buyer get a copy of the strucutral letter for his records.

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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#7] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 3:20:28 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by Terence McCann

You really have a mishmash there. The second pic looks like they took a few liberties however it's hard to tell measurement from a pic.



It is hard to tell do yall think its a good idea to say.

"Several trade cut made in TJI floor joist. While trade cuts are allowable they must fall under the guidelines set by the manufacture" Recommend that the builder/structural engineer evaluate to determine all trade cuts are within the manufactures specifications."


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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#8] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 6:55:03 PM
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Because I'm sure there have been plenty of screw-ups in the recent past, Trus-Joist is now stapling very detailed installation booklets on what seems to be every other stick. Next time anyone's checking out new construction, take one of the books--if available--for future reference.

I saw a house like the one in the photos a few months ago, and thought, "Whoaaa." But then I pulled out the instructions and was reminded that the manufacturers actually allow pretty large holes in engineered joists.

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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#9] Posted: 03/10/2009 - 8:11:11 PM
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A few basic rules about TJIs.

1) Do not cut/notch the flange. Ever.

2) More load is concentrated in the webs as you get closer to the end bearing, so the closer a hole is to the end the smaller it has to be. Larger holes need to be farther from the supports. Each manufacturer has 'hole charts'. For a given size hole the chart tells you the minimum distance it needs to be from the supports. Different charts for round vs rectangular holes. The large duct in your photo looks like it's well away from the supports. Probably OK, but you'd need to measure it's size and the distance to the support to know for sure.

3) Holes can't be too close together. The general rule is you need undisturbed web material between the two holes equal to twice the diameter of the larger hole.

4) Engineered beams have a slightly different set of rules, and again each manufacturer has specific instructions. Usually a hole is OK in the middle third of the depth and in the middle third of the span. The beam in your photo looks like it has a larger hole than that. This MIGHT be OK with the blessing of an engineer. Suggesting that your client get a copy of the engineer's letter was a good call.

Garet Denise
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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#10] Posted: 03/11/2009 - 05:48:19 AM
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If you are not comfortable in determining if the structure is compromised, suggest that the manufacturer's field tech evaluate the installation and determine if it meets their spec. This can be usually be done at no cost to your client.
Steven C. Hockstein, AIA
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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#11] Posted: 03/11/2009 - 11:50:40 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Quote: Originally posted by palmettoinspect

Quote: Originally posted by Terence McCann

You really have a mishmash there. The second pic looks like they took a few liberties however it's hard to tell measurement from a pic.



It is hard to tell do yall think its a good idea to say.

"Several trade cut made in TJI floor joist. While trade cuts are allowable they must fall under the guidelines set by the manufacture" Recommend that the builder/structural engineer evaluate to determine all trade cuts are within the manufactures specifications."


No, it's not a good idea to say that. Not to be harsh, but your writing is incomprehensible. It's full of grammar, spelling and punctuation errors, with a little jargon ("trade cuts?") thrown in. Pardon me for saying so, but I doubt that anybody will bother to read it.

WJ

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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#12] Posted: 03/11/2009 - 11:54:03 AM
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Quote: Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Quote: Originally posted by palmettoinspect

Quote: Originally posted by Terence McCann

You really have a mishmash there. The second pic looks like they took a few liberties however it's hard to tell measurement from a pic.



It is hard to tell do yall think its a good idea to say.

"Several trade cut made in TJI floor joist. While trade cuts are allowable they must fall under the guidelines set by the manufacture" Recommend that the builder/structural engineer evaluate to determine all trade cuts are within the manufactures specifications."


No, it's not a good idea to say that. Not to be harsh, but your writing is incomprehensible. It's full of grammar, spelling and punctuation errors, with a little jargon ("trade cuts?") thrown in. Pardon me for saying so, but I doubt that anybody will bother to read it.

WJ


Thanks for the constructive criticism but I don’t see any spelling errors in that sentence. As for trade cuts what other word would you use. Or better yet how would you type that comment??

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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#13] Posted: 03/11/2009 - 1:09:09 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Quote: Originally posted by palmettoinspect

Quote: Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Quote: Originally posted by palmettoinspect

Quote: Originally posted by Terence McCann

You really have a mishmash there. The second pic looks like they took a few liberties however it's hard to tell measurement from a pic.



It is hard to tell do yall think its a good idea to say.


"Several trade cut made in TJI floor joist. While trade cuts are allowable they must fall under the guidelines set by the manufacture" Recommend that the builder/structural engineer evaluate to determine all trade cuts are within the manufactures specifications."


No, it's not a good idea to say that. Not to be harsh, but your writing is incomprehensible. It's full of grammar, spelling and punctuation errors, with a little jargon ("trade cuts?") thrown in. Pardon me for saying so, but I doubt that anybody will bother to read it.

WJ


Thanks for the constructive criticism but I don’t see any spelling errors in that sentence. As for trade cuts what other word would you use. Or better yet how would you type that comment??


1. RE spelling: Manufacture is a verb. Manufacturer is a noun. You want "manufacturer." Then there's "several trade cut." Cut is singular. If there are several, you need the plural "cuts." This is middle-school stuff.

2. Twenty-plus years in the biz. Grew up in South Carolina. Never heard the term "trade cut." Most likely, a homeowner would have no idea what a "trade cut" is. I assume it's local jargon that means something like, "a cut made by a tradesman."

3. I have no idea what I'd write about this. Neither the photos nor the commentary deliver much info.

Your commentary might be just fine if you're handing it off to a person who reads/writes at the same level. But if you're trying to communicate with an educated customer or a skilled HI, engineer, or such you'll need to write at their level, or they either won't understand or won't bother to read the commentary. For an example of good professional description, see Garet's contribution to this thread.

WJ



Honest mistakes in spelling I don’t think it is a "middle school level" but hey we all have our own opinion. Anyways thanks for the responses guys. I have gone over the situation with the buyer and the builder and the builder will ensure all trade cuts sorry "holes" are made within manufacturer’s specs and the engineer will provide a letter for the beam.

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Allowable holes in TJIs
[#14] Posted: 03/12/2009 - 07:05:44 AM
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It's hard to tell from the 2nd pic but does the duct work terminate against that parrallam or go through it?

Damaging i-joists is one thing but cutting a load bearing beam is an entirely different problem.

Jeff Beck
Foresight Inspection Service

   
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