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CORSICA, PA
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 Plank Framing
[#52] Posted: 08/10/2011 - 6:11:42 PM |  |  |
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I've been a lurker here since I bought my house and have found the forum to be very informative!
I just wanted to chime in and say that I live in one of these plank houses. We closed on it this June. It was built ca. 1880-1890 and has two separate additions, both of which were built pre-1920. The two additions are plank-framed as well.
The previous owner called it "triple-plank" construction, because that's what various carpenters have told her as they cursed at the house while trying to do a modification.
If anybody needs any photos or specifications of a specific part of the house or the construction, I can do my best to get that for you.
Here's are two of the outside just after I bought it - can't tell the difference at all between this one and any other house. Guess it's the vinyl siding...
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Alan
The John B. McCullough house, built ca. 1875 |
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Gaston, Oregon
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CORSICA, PA
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Plank Framing
[#54] Posted: 08/11/2011 - 06:39:09 AM | | |
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Will see what I can come up with this evening. I have removed a lot of the nasty old insulation that was stuffed into that area so hopefully I can get a few clear photos.
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Alan
The John B. McCullough house, built ca. 1875 |
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CORSICA, PA
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Plank Framing
[#55] Posted: 08/11/2011 - 5:09:00 PM | | |
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I took a few photos, hopefully these help. It's definitely a hard thing to try to photograph. I don't know the technical term for these construction elements, so bear with me as I sound like an idiot trying to describe what you're seeing. I have tried to annotate the pictures for you.
Specifications:
- Hand-hewn timbers measure 8.5"x8"
- Floor joists are true 2x8 and measure 23" OC (yes 23)
Pic 1:
I am standing under the addition looking at what was originally the exterior wall of the NE corner of the house. You can see at least two layers of 1by planks coming down vertically. Other than that it looks like a jumbled mess of wood. The true 2x4 which bears the weight of the addition's floor joists has begun to pull away from the timber. You can see that the t&g floor boards of the addition are butted right up against the former exterior planks.
Download Attachment:  photo 1.JPG
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Pic 2 (somehow got rotated, tilt head to side when viewing):
Just a pic that shows how the floor joists are notched into the timber. This is the interior side of the same timber in pic #1.
Download Attachment: photo 2.JPG
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Pic 3:
This was the original Northeast corner of the house before the two additions were built around it. The cast iron plumbing stack was inserted right into the old corner of the house. There is a true 2x4 stuck to the side of the timber, and this whole corner is supported by a metal post. I know you can't really see much here, but I wasn't sure how else to do this.
Download Attachment: photo 3.JPG
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Pic 4 (also somehow got rotated):
South foundation wall in the dug basement, right side of the photo is directly above a window and they made a "lintel" out of wood. The foundation is hidden behind some OSB sheeting that the PO put up "to hide the ugly". Left side of pic is a floor joist notched into the timber.
Download Attachment: photo 4.JPG
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Pic 5:
In the crawl space, looking at the South foundation wall. The timber is resting on the foundation and the floor joists are notched into the timber.
Download Attachment: photo 5.JPG
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Let me know if this helps. I can always get more if there are any other requests.
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Alan
The John B. McCullough house, built ca. 1875 |
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Rochester, New York
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Plank Framing
[#56] Posted: 08/11/2011 - 5:21:59 PM | | |
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Thanks! It was very nice of you to go to the effort.
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Chad Fabry
StructureSmart Home Inspection Rochester, NY
www.structuresmart.com
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CORSICA, PA
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Plank Framing
[#57] Posted: 08/11/2011 - 5:37:25 PM | | |
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Not a problem. Another thing you guys might not see everyday is the chimney being used as a structural member. You can see here, the brick chimney base bearing the load of the 6x8 beam which runs directly down the centre of the original part of the house. All of the floor joists rest directly on top of this beam, so it makes for very low head clearance in the basement.
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Alan
The John B. McCullough house, built ca. 1875 |
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Gaston, Oregon
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Plank Framing
[#58] Posted: 08/11/2011 - 7:52:43 PM | | |
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Hey, those are great. Thanks very much.
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Jim Katen, Oregon
www.amipdx.com |
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Clarion, PA
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Plank Framing
[#59] Posted: 09/26/2011 - 07:22:36 AM | | |
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Thank you for this info!
Our home was built as a 1 room school house, I believe in the 1940s. In 1960 it was convered into a home.
We have 1" x 10-12" double plank walls with a black paper between. The extrior was then finished with short pieces of 4" T&G. That was later covered with asbestos shingles. The interior used furring strips and very thin drywall.
We are remodling an upstairs room right now and plan to frame up 2x4 walls in order to add insulation (curent plan is spray on foam). I have a question about the framing though. He believes the walls will have stuctural value, as he plans to tie them to the rafters (the horizonal rafter ties on one side, which has been gabled to raise the celling at some time, and the rafters themselves at the knee wall on the otherside of the house); is that so? Should the first floor be done first? My husband has a tendancy to over do things to compansate for a lack of knowledge--ie every board is glued, nailed, and screwed because we don't know which is correct in a given application--so knowing if the walls will become wieght barring will help us decide on how far to space studs (we did the interior wall between this room and the stairs over the weekend and he put studs 16"oc).We started upstairs because of the cost of redoing the bathroom and kitchen. In the beginning we were just fixing the existing drywall and putting in new floors, but the project just keeps expanding.
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bryan, TX
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Plank Framing
[#60] Posted: 04/10/2012 - 09:37:15 AM | | |
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I found and photographed wall to sill details in a single wall house i found in Colorado county Texas, let me know if you'd like images.
Very informative thread!
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Crestline, Ca
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Plank Framing
[#61] Posted: 11/07/2012 - 9:48:09 PM | | |
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First of all thank God for this thread! Second of all it's great to see the since of community that this topic has brought. I am a young carpenter as well as a new contractor less then a month now and I have this job that is requesting me to remodel about 6 of these style homes from an old logging camp in California I'm a little concerned about diving into this venture, but excited about the history I have already learn just from this forum. I have now realized that I grew up in one of these homes for about twenty years of my life. My question if I may ask, which is a question in its self; is how would I go about removing and replacing the exterior planks that are the bearing structures of these buildings? Am I to believe that I need to remove the roof completely to do it safely and adequately? The planks are rotted and the walls are no longer straight and true. Any advice would be great. Except bad advice :)
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Gaston, Oregon
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Plank Framing
[#63] Posted: 01/15/2013 - 12:51:38 AM | | |
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Wow! After many hours of research (and many hours wasted in 'conventional' construction books), I'm ecstatic to find this thread of experts talking about Plank construction. I doubt if there is another forum on the web with the info here - so thank you to one and all.
You see, my wife and I have just bought an old farmstead in North West Washington a few months ago. I've been "digging around" the layers of the house and even with my limited construction knowledge I knew right away that I was dealing with something different. Where are the wall cavities? Where are the corner posts? How is that timber on the second floor (the one holding the roof) supported? Surely, here in the corner? Nope. From the outside with nails through the planks?!!! Yup....I was both terrified and perplexed that this could be true, but indeed it is...
I realize we are about to embark on a renovation journey that will be an excellent learning and history lesson. I was also ecstatic to find, when thumbing through the pages of the local archives, a picture of my home from 1890. It turns out that the original pioneer built this home using the timber from the property....and I mean TIMBER. This plank house is no less than 3 layers of 12", 10" and 8" (descending in size from inside to outside) old growth fir and cedar planks that run the height of the building, and are up to 2" thick. (who says box construction can't be strong?!). I even have photos of the pioneer and his family logging the field that is now outside the home. Some of the stumps appear to be up to 12' in diameter. It was a very cool discovery to see an original photo of this house when it was just a few years old.
There is a great story to this homestead and we intend to bring back its original charm (despite many 1970s "upgrades" and additions over the years).
If I can figure out how to post some pics or a pdf, I will as I think some of you might find it interesting. (The enormous planks make up the interior "load bearing" walls as well.)
I'm very grateful to have found some experts - I hope this thread stays active as it has lasted a few years already.
Download Attachment:  My old House.pdf
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Thanks Marc! I didn't have that option until I edited the post but here is a PDF of some pics of the place.
Image 1: Is the old photo of the homestead just a few years old. (circa 1891) The gentleman is John Gardene, A swedish immigrant just a few years in the US. He would go on to have 4 wives, and 14 children, 8 of whom lived here at one time. The road he is on is the former county road, now my driveway. The barn in the background no longer stands but I'm pretty certain its boards made they're way into the house as an interior finish wall on the first floor (believe it or not! more on that later). One of the best things about finding this picture is that it explains the dormer (and balcony and first floor entry that is no longer there). I was struggling trying to figure out the dormer...
Image 2: John Gardene and neighbors logging the field. This was his livelihood and by all evidence, there was PLENTY of timber for planks (some planks on the house exceed 25')
Image 3: The same crew damming the creek that is on the property and sluicing the logs down the mountain 1 mile to the mill (which still stands and operates)
Image 4: The farmstead in 1983. The fields, now grass, are from whence came the timber.
Image 5 & 6: The house today with 2 functional, but unsightly 1970s additions. I'm at a loss with what to do with these...
The house is now 2200 sq ft.
Remaining Images: Interior shots. Interesting electrical "upgrade" from the 70s :).
Also, note the horizontal beam that supports the roof rafters that rest directly on it. Nowhere (with exception of the later-added stud and drywall partitions between rooms, is that beam supported vertically or down to the floor, let alone down to the first floor or the foundation. Not even at the corners. In this way, the roof bears virtually no load on the second floor. Isn't this right?
So the weight of the roof and second floor are as strong as the nails driven into the 3" x 8" rim joist and this horizontal beam on the second floor? Can this really be?
As I proceed (cautiously) I will post more images. I have some carpenter friends who have not yet come to see the place and they look at me incredulously and with disbelief when I tell them how I am finding this house to be built. They've even said "thats impossible"...
While I find it very perplexing and unbelievable, the home and its livable condition is proof that it is possible.
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Lafayette, Louisiana
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Plank Framing
[#64] Posted: 01/15/2013 - 05:26:59 AM | | |
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I'm sure you'll get a lot of attention if you can figure out how to post pictures.
When you post on this forum, look below the text box. You'll see "Upload a Visible Picture". Click it then use the links to locate the photo on your computer. Don't use any special characters on the file name otherwise it won't uplink.
Marc
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"If Guam gets too overpopulated, it might tip over."
Congressman Hank Johnson (D) GA |
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CORSICA, PA
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Plank Framing
[#65] Posted: 01/15/2013 - 06:00:02 AM | | |
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I just wanted to add a couple more pictures to follow up on my previous posts. I have been doing some restoration work inside and exposed the plank walls in several places after removing badly damaged plaster.
Here is an interior wall (2 offset layers of planks). The gap behind the plaster was created by the vertical lath strapped to the plank. The horizontal laths were attached to these.
Click to View
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The planks are more-or-less 5/4" thick.
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This is the inside of the dining room closet (under the stairs) after I removed all the plaster & lath from this wall. This was originally an exterior wall before the living room addition was added on the other side. The exterior walls are 3 layers of the 5/4" vertical planks. The cables you see were just loosely tacked around the door frame so I tried to neaten them up a bit. Once I remove the remaining lath pieces that stick out from behind the stair stringers, I'm going to build a piece of trim to cover the electrical and then leave the planks exposed.
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Several of the planks are at least 13.5" wide.
Click to View
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Alan
The John B. McCullough house, built ca. 1875 |
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Lafayette, Louisiana
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Plank Framing
[#66] Posted: 01/15/2013 - 06:18:25 AM | | |
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Great photos!
The exposed planking in the dining room closet would afford an interesting view into the construction of the house but since it's under a stairway, a fire there would have access to plenty of fuel and take out the stairs quickly. That might leave anyone upstairs without an exit other than a second story window.
Just something to keep in mind.
Marc
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"If Guam gets too overpopulated, it might tip over."
Congressman Hank Johnson (D) GA |
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Plank Framing
[#67] Posted: 01/15/2013 - 10:30:35 AM | | |
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Those are great photos!
I've updated my post and have added some info and pictures of the house. Detailed pics to come...
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CORSICA, PA
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Plank Framing
[#68] Posted: 01/21/2013 - 12:46:19 PM | | |
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Marc... makes sense. To add to that, the furnace is in the basement, almost directly below this closet floor.
Cool house, Plank Newbie, and it's awesome that you were able to obtain some very old photos. Would like to see the rest of the pics. That's a pretty big house, mine is between 1400-1500 square feet. The original house was only between 700-800 and there are two early additions (both plank framed).
I stated in my first post that it was built ca. 1880-90 - well I've actually narrowed it down to 1872-77 for the original part.
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Alan
The John B. McCullough house, built ca. 1875 |
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Plank Framing
[#69] Posted: 02/06/2013 - 2:07:20 PM | | |
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Hi All,
Well, the demo has continued and I've created quite a mess. :)
And now I need some help...
I realize this thread is aging but hope some of you might offer a word or two of advice re: vapour barrier for exterior walls (installed from the interior) for my vertical plank house that previously had no vapour barrier.
Obviously the goal is to avoid moisture where we don't want it.
Still unsure whether I will furr out stud walls or not (I'm partial to retaining the historic building methodology and keeping the space). I'm thinking I might just chase electrical flat against the existing "barn board" plank walls, add sheets of Styrofoam insulation, then apply an interior board panelling finish (t&g 1x6 of some wood type)
Any cautions, better solutions or experience to share? Would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
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Kenmore, WA
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Plank Framing
[#70] Posted: 02/06/2013 - 3:39:42 PM | | |
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Don't!
We don't install interior vapor barriers here in Wasington because we are in a temperate climate. If we were in a colder climate an interior barrier would be appropriate, if in a warmer/more humid climate where we needed A/C all the time an exterior barrier would be appropriate but it's not needed here.
Think about it. Look at the condition of those walls. Do you think they would have lasted 100+ years if a piece of plastic had been fastened over the interior face and created a big leaky petri dish? Old houses are able to dry to both the interior and the exterior - that's why many of them have lasted so long and why houses built since the 1950's are often rotting all to hell.
If you want to lessen air movement think about a house wrap. House wrap will stop air movement but it is permeable and won't trap moisture. You can used unfaced fiberglass batting and drywall and the exterior walls will still be able to dry to the interior without the wind blowing through. If you use styrofoam glued to the interior face you might end up with a wall that can non longer dry to the interior, so you'd need to leave a gap behind the styrofoam for interior air to circulate through and that would defeat the purpose of the foam.
Think this through very very carefully or in twenty years you might be struggling to keep the walls from collapsing due to beetle and carpenter ant activity.
ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!
Mike
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[#71] Posted: 02/06/2013 - 4:37:19 PM | | |
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Awesome Post, Mike - Thanks! And as you've picked up and noted, I am indeed in WA.
I suppose I forgot to mention that I was considering the VB as a potential deterrent/barrier from the Asian ladybugs that had COMPLETELY infested the attic - (but I guess my best bet there is to protect/secure/seal from the outside so they can't get in)
Based on what you're saying I'm inclined to insulate (after sealing) the attic and perhaps leave the walls as the well ventilated wood plank sandwich that they are.
I welcome any and all ideas!
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CORSICA, PA
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 Plank Framing
[#72] Posted: 02/06/2013 - 4:55:20 PM | | |
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Yes, from one old plank house owner to another, just say NO to the vapour barrier!
I have no construction industry credentials other than just a lot of research, but I will tell you that I will NEVER fully air-seal this house (or any other old house I might own in the future) even if it does mean higher utility bills. I won't even consider using house-wrap.
Mike is right, the reason our old houses lasted as long as they did is because they can breathe and stay dried out (oh, and because they're built like complete beasts out of old-growth wood  ). Not only will the trapped moisture cause problems with the structure of the house, but it will encourage mold/mildew growth inside which can have a real negative impact on your and your family's health.
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Alan
The John B. McCullough house, built ca. 1875 |
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Kenmore, WA
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Plank Framing
[#73] Posted: 02/06/2013 - 6:05:51 PM | | |
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Hi again, P.N.
Not sure what you mean about "completely seal" that attic. If that means completely close off all ventilation to the attic you'll need to figure out how to bring that attic into the conditioned space of the house or you're going to create a place where moisture will go and condense on the underside of the roof and cause you other issues. To bring it into the conditioned space of the house, you'd need to move the insulation from the ceiling plane to the roof plane, while still leaving some kind of ventilation under the roof plane, and then you'd want to completely seal all vents and install vents and a low-speed fan to bring condtioned air up into that attic and allow it to return to the house below.
If you're not going to bring it into the conditioned envelope of the house; don't reduce the size of the mesh at any attic vents. In fact, if you're using common fly screening as mesh over the vents replace it with something like 1/4-inch galvanized mesh. The 1/4-inch mesh will defeat the toughest birds and rodents and allow plenty of air movement up under the roof plane. You need that air movement to draw off moisture that escapes through air passages into the attic and common fly screening is probably only about 20 to 25% net free. That means that if you've screened four square feet of vents with fly screening and think you've met a 4sf ventilation requirement, you actually only have about 1/4 of what you need. Without proper ventilation, the underside of your roof will be wet most of the time on the North and East sides and you'll end up with moisture issues you're not going to like.
1/4-inch mess won't keep ladybugs or wasps out but you've got to take some bad with the good. Do a little research online; there's probably something organic that produces an odor that you could put in the attic to repel the little devils. If not, consider yourself lucky it isn't Pacific Dampwood Termites or Deathwatch beetles nesting in the home.
Again, look how your house has been "working". Any changes you make need to maintain that dynamic. When you tighten up the walls of an old house you force the vapor inside to diffuse through alternate routes. If the attic is underventilated it might be fine until you start tightening up the house below and then you'll end up with ten times the amount of vapor diffusing into the attic. Unless you've either increased the ventilation so that it can remove that excess moisture, or have completely sealed that attic and brought it into the conditioned space of the house, you could end up with rot and fungi issues in the attic.
As I said above, think it through very carefully - do your research, talk to builders in this region to find out what's been working for them and then proceed slowly.
ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!
Mike
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Collins, NY
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Plank Framing
[#74] Posted: 02/07/2013 - 05:05:55 AM | | |
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If you are tackling the whole house you could spray foam the whole thing with at least 2" of closed cell foam. From there you can add more depth to reach the design R-values for your climate. SPF air seals and stiffens plank buildings really nicely. You will also have to completely resize the HVAC, install an HRV and provide outside combustion air for gas appliances. If you are going through it room by room or floor by floor, follow Mr. O's advice.
I am glad to see the ladybugs return to my old house, they signal the retreat of the cluster flies.
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Tom
http://clearcreekhomeinspection.com/
Life is tough enough as it is, it's tougher when your stupid. Don't do stupid things.
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Rochester, New York
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[#76] Posted: 02/07/2013 - 3:05:05 PM | | |
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Thanks All. Great advice!
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