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louisville, ne
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 A coil/Condensor sizing
[#102] Posted: 02/07/2010 - 10:05:30 PM |  |  |
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uh they did,look at the differance in coilsizes between a 10 and 13 seer! that 15 seer unit i put in last picture is a 2t 
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Gaston, Oregon
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louisville, ne
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#104] Posted: 02/07/2010 - 10:39:34 PM | | |
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im saying this is where the factorys are gaining a big chunk of their extra efficiency.l cant make it much simpler than saying park a 10 seer condensor next to a 13 seer then put that next to a 14-15 seer ,notice a pattern in the size ofcoils for same tonage of cooling? 
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Gaston, Oregon
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louisville, ne
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#106] Posted: 02/07/2010 - 11:11:17 PM | | |
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ok then explain to me what advantage the factory gains by making the A coil bigger between the 10seer and 13 seer ? im all ears ! ive got my happy face on here so enlighten me! http://hyetechutilities.com
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Gaston, Oregon
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#107] Posted: 02/08/2010 - 10:30:49 PM | | |
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Quote: Originally posted by plummenok then explain to me what advantage the factory gains by making the A coil bigger between the 10seer and 13 seer ? im all ears ! ive got my happy face on here so enlighten me! http://hyetechutilities.com
Some manufacturers are using larger coils as part of an overall strategy to improve efficiency. That's not the only change they're making. They're tweaking many things, including fan speeds to squeeze out as much efficiency as they can from the systems. To do this successfully, they have to consider the entire installation, not just coil sizing.
That does't mean that a well-meaning field installer can simply install bigger coils on a system and think that he's making it "more efficient."
In the past, it was common for some HVAC techs to install slightly larger *evaporator* coils to improve dehumidification. This was (generally) done with the manufacturer's blessing because there was very little downside to it.
Nowadays, however, I think it's a poor idea for a heating tech to install anything other than what the manufacturers specs for the system. Maybe that's what you've been saying -- I can't tell -- if so, I'm in complete agreement with you.
However, what you seem to have been saying is, "If I slap on a bigger coil, it'll make the system better." If that's what you're trying to say, then I disagree with you.
- Jim Katen, Oregon
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Jim Katen, Oregon
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Lafayette, Louisiana
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#108] Posted: 02/09/2010 - 07:00:47 AM | | |
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I'm with you, Jim, 100%. All this talk about contractors claiming to improve system cooling efficiency (or latent heat removal) by increasing the condenser capacity in relation to the evaporator capacity is nothing more than an enormous lapse in good judgment. The design of HVAC systems is far more complex than any post on this forum that I've read has suggested. There is no better Rx for home inspectors and contractors to follow than to simply stick with the manufacturer's recommendations and defer any issues with system design to them.
There's good contractors out there and there's bad ones. It's not good for us to stereotype other professions.
Marc
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"If Guam gets too overpopulated, it might tip over."
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Pearland, Texas
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#109] Posted: 08/16/2010 - 3:34:30 PM | | |
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I had a similar situation with the tonage being different by 1/2 ton. Great post as I have learned a lot on this one......
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Robert Welch
ATEX Inspects
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Margate, NJ
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#110] Posted: 10/30/2011 - 11:19:33 AM | | |
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I always get a photo of the coil & condenser data plate and try to match them later in my office with a Preston's Guide. Sometimes the numbers don't add up and I state in the report that I could not determine if properly matched.
So yes, I do check because it's easy and because I also include model and serials numbers in all reports.
But as many have said, there's no clear guidelines as to how much mismatch is allowed (I typically mention if off by more than 6000 BTU's).
BTW, the NJ standards specifically state that we do not determine sizing of HVAC systems.
Good Luck...
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Roy Baake
N.J. Licensed Home Inspector
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louisville, ne
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#111] Posted: 12/10/2011 - 6:55:34 PM | | |
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Johnstone supply catalog #197L pge 800 aspen manufacturing evap coils.
2t outdoor unit Ac3B024F1 with coil:
MVR34 36+X4 13.5 seer(3t coil and matched piston)
MVR34 36 13seer(3t coil matched piston)
MVR24 36+X4 13 seer(3t coil matched piston)
MV124 30+X4 13 seer (2.5t coil matched piston)
MVR24 30+X4 13 seer (2.5t coil matched piston)
2.5t outdoor unit AC3B030F1 with coil:
MVR34 36+X4 13.5 seer(3t coil matched piston)
MV524 42+X4 13.5 seer(3.5t coil matched piston)
MVR24 42X4 13 seer(3.5t coil matched piston)
MVR124 30+X4 13seer(2.5t coil with matched piston)
MVR24 30+X4 13 seer(2.5t coil with matched piston)
now those are just the factory reccomendations for the 2 and 2.5 t condensors from coleman/evcon which happens to manufacturer condensors and coils for many other companys.
I can type out pages and pages of which coils they say to use with their condensors to get differant efficiency ratings BY USING LARGER COILS WITH THEIR CONDENSING UNITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By all means feel free to contact an actual supply hose such as johnstone supply and tell them their catalog is wrong,and they couldnt possibly know what theyre talking about because their on in the business of supplying contractors who actually install and work on this equipment,they need to go take home inspector clases.
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louisville, ne
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louisville, ne
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#113] Posted: 12/10/2011 - 7:43:37 PM | | |
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johnstone supply catalog 197L page 816 cased upflow/downflow coils:
CAPF1824A6A 1.5-2t coil
CAPF3642C6A 3-3.5t coil
GOODMAN COIL/CONDENSING UNIT MATCHUP CHART pge 826 same catalog
Condensor CKL18-1C use with coils:
CAUF018,CACF018,CAPF018 1.5t coils 10 seer
CAUF024,CACF024 2t coils 10 seer
CAUF030,CACF030,CAPF030 2.5t coils10.5 seer
CHPF024A2A+EEP 2t coil 10 seer
CHPF030A2A+EEP 2.5t coil 10.5 seer
Condensor CKL24-1H
CAUF024,CACF024 2t coils 10 seer
CAUF030,CACF030,CAPF030 2.5t coil 10.5 seer
CAUF036,CACF036,CAPF036 3t coil 10.5 seer
they list which size coils to use all the way up to a 5t in the 10 seer condensors to boost the seer ratings up to 10.5 in some cases.
yeah i know what youre thinking goodman is just a manufacturer,not home inspectors.
dont worry guys monday ill call the oconner co,theyre the trane/american standard supply house in omaha and get a sizing chart from them for ya also.
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Gaston, Oregon
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Lafayette, Louisiana
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#115] Posted: 12/11/2011 - 04:48:40 AM | | |
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Quote: Originally posted by plummenJohnstone supply catalog #197L pge 800 aspen manufacturing evap coils. 2t outdoor unit Ac3B024F1 with coil: MVR34 36+X4 13.5 seer(3t coil and matched piston) MVR34 36 13seer(3t coil matched piston) MVR24 36+X4 13 seer(3t coil matched piston) MV124 30+X4 13 seer (2.5t coil matched piston) MVR24 30+X4 13 seer (2.5t coil matched piston) 2.5t outdoor unit AC3B030F1 with coil: MVR34 36+X4 13.5 seer(3t coil matched piston) MV524 42+X4 13.5 seer(3.5t coil matched piston) MVR24 42X4 13 seer(3.5t coil matched piston) MVR124 30+X4 13seer(2.5t coil with matched piston) MVR24 30+X4 13 seer(2.5t coil with matched piston) now those are just the factory reccomendations for the 2 and 2.5 t condensors from coleman/evcon which happens to manufacturer condensors and coils for many other companys. I can type out pages and pages of which coils they say to use with their condensors to get differant efficiency ratings BY USING LARGER COILS WITH THEIR CONDENSING UNITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By all means feel free to contact an actual supply hose such as johnstone supply and tell them their catalog is wrong,and they couldnt possibly know what theyre talking about because their on in the business of supplying contractors who actually install and work on this equipment,they need to go take home inspector clases.
Plummen makes a point. But the point is not that a contractor can field engineer a coil size for a given condenser tonnage. It's that there's a misunderstanding in this thread. Noticed in the quoted table where the manufacturer consistently specifies 'matched piston'. When the piston matches and the coil is specified by the manufacturer, it's not a mismatch.
What some fellas are referring to in this thread is where a contractor has chosen to oversize an evap coil without considering the piston and what the manufacturer allows and I've known that to happen often Plummen, where I was the serviceman in the picture instead of the home inspector and, during the course of the service work, learned of the mismatched piston. I check them when I open the refrig lines in the vicinity of the evap coil because experience has shown to me that low-down, cotton pickin' contractors make that mistake often and I'm there to fix the thing for my customer.
Marc
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Congressman Hank Johnson (D) GA |
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louisville, ne
Posts: 354
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A coil/Condensor sizing
[#116] Posted: 12/11/2011 - 10:42:49 AM | | |
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matching the piston is the easy part,its listed right on the side of the condensing unit in most cases.
can everybody live with this now?
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