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Ben H
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Funny but yes grizzlies are alive and well in the North, and they pretty much do what they want, when they want.

I have to laugh at the guys who think packing a pistol makes them safer in grizzly country. "OK, you'd rather be attacked by a wounded bear?". [:)]

A buddy worked with a grizzly bear tour business a few years ago. They would take people up to the head of Knight Inlet to watch dozens of grizzlies eating salmon. The tourists would all climb up onto a viewing platform so they could be safe while they took their pictures. He had some pictures he wasn't supposed to show anybody. They were pictures taken from the ground of a grizzly looking down at him from the viewing platform. [:)]

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As thick as their coat, ie; fur and fat is, I am not sure a .38 round of any type is going to have much effect. Especially when that .38 round has to be fired from a fairly close distance to begin with. I think I read somewhere, that people that actually pack hand guns in case of grizzly encounter, carry .44 magnum type gun/round.

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I have to laugh at the guys who think packing a pistol makes them safer in grizzly country. "OK, you'd rather be attacked by a wounded bear?".

I'm not a hunter but I wonder....A couple of .38 special hollow points wouldn't stop a grizzly?

Marc

Actually, in the Journals of Lewis and Clark - the first white men to ever see and deal with the grizzly, they wrote of twelve encounters with the bear. The native Indians had warned them of its ferocity, but even with muskets, they were not fully prepared. Among their accounts are these two (I've done a spell-check on them, as the actual spelling in the journal was pretty bad - worse than my own I'd dare say.):

Account One -"Capt. Clark & Drewyer killed the largest brown bear this evening which we have yet seen. it was a most tremendous looking animal, and extremely hard to kill notwithstanding he had five balls through his lungs and five others in various parts he swam more than half the distance across the river to a sandbar & it was at least twenty minutes before he died; he did not attempt to attack, but fled and made the most tremendous roaring from the moment he was shot.

We had no means of weighing this monster; Capt. Clark thought he would weigh 500 lbs. for my own part I think the estimate to small by 100 lbs. He measured 8 Feet 7-1/2 Inches from nose to extremity of the hind feet; 5 F. 10-1/2 Inch around the breast, 1 F. 11 I[nches]. around the middle of the arm, & 3 F. 11 I. around the neck; his talons which were five in number on each foot were 4-3/8 Inches in length."

Account Two - "Six good hunters of the party fired at a Brown or Yellow Bear Several times before they killed him, & indeed he had like to have defeated the whole party, he pursued them Separately as they fired on him, and was near Catching Several of them one he pursued into the river, this bear was large & fat would way about 500 wt... ...he pursued two of them separately so close that they were obliged to throw aside their guns and pouches and throw themselves into the river although' the bank was nearly twenty feet perpendicular; so enraged was this animal that he plunged into the river only a few feet behind the second man he had compelled to take refuge in the water, when one of those who still remained on shore shot him through the head and finally killed him"

Their conclusion:

"I find that the curiosity of our party is pretty well satisfied with respect to this animal, the formidable appearance of the male bear killed on the 5th added to the difficulty with which they die when even shot through the vital parts, has staggered the resolution of several of them, others however seem keen for action with the bear; I expect these gentlemen will give us some amusement sho[r]tly as they soon begin now to copulate."

Their conclusion was that the grizzly would keep coming on when it simply didn't seem possible.

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I'm not a hunter but I wonder....A couple of .38 special hollow points wouldn't stop a grizzly?

Sure they will. As long as you are able to take steady aim and shoot through both eyes. If I had a choice between a .38 and a large can of bear pepper spray, I'd choose the pepper spray.

Reminds me of a Jean Shepard story from when I was a kid.

Shepard has gone to Alaska to go fishing. His guide is a 16-year old kid named Steve who shows up with a pair of beat up spinning rods, a canvas fish bag, & a US Army standard issue .45 automatic complete with two clips of copper-nosed slugs. Shepard thinks, "Jesus Keerist, what kind of cukoo am I stuck with?" While the kid just looks at him & says, "bears" matter-of-factly.

Later that night the kid's mother bawls him out about taking a .45 on a fishing trip, "If I hear of you taking that .45 out to Fish Creek again you're really going to be in trouble. Don't ever let me hear of you going out again with less than a 30-06. That .45 is nothing, you hear me?"

Steve sulked. Shepard gulped.

"You remember what happened to Jimmy," she said.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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I'm not a hunter but I wonder....A couple of .38 special hollow points wouldn't stop a grizzly?

Sure they will. As long as you are able to take steady aim and shoot through both eyes. If I had a choice between a .38 and a large can of bear pepper spray, I'd choose the pepper spray.

I agree 100%

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Hm. Speeking of ballistics, I'm re-listening to the book Grant, by John Mosier, while driving to and from my morning inspection, and just heard a shocking statistic, which highlights how far we've come regarding firearms: Prior to the cIvil war, 3.5 Million bullets fired resulted in an average of 8000 casualties. I wonder how that statistic pans out now.

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I'm not a hunter but I wonder....A couple of .38 special hollow points wouldn't stop a grizzly?

Sure they will. As long as you are able to take steady aim and shoot through both eyes. If I had a choice between a .38 and a large can of bear pepper spray, I'd choose the pepper spray.

Reminds me of a Jean Shepard story from when I was a kid.

Shepard has gone to Alaska to go fishing. His guide is a 16-year old kid named Steve who shows up with a pair of beat up spinning rods, a canvas fish bag, & a US Army standard issue .45 automatic complete with two clips of copper-nosed slugs. Shepard thinks, "Jesus Keerist, what kind of cukoo am I stuck with?" While the kid just looks at him & says, "bears" matter-of-factly.

Later that night the kid's mother bawls him out about taking a .45 on a fishing trip, "If I hear of you taking that .45 out to Fish Creek again you're really going to be in trouble. Don't ever let me hear of you going out again with less than a 30-06. That .45 is nothing, you hear me?"

Steve sulked. Shepard gulped.

"You remember what happened to Jimmy," she said.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Hi,

The reason that the U.S. Army sidearm of choice for so many years was the .45 wasn't simply because it was it was a big slug; it was because of the slug's knock-down power. The .38 special round that most police agencies used to use had such high muzzle velocity that it will go clean through a suspect and he'll keep coming at you for a while before he realizes he's been hit. The velocity of the .45 is much slower and it literally hits you like a linebacker and will take you off your feet. That, plus the fact that those big slugs then like to bounce around inside a bit before they stop moving was what endeared that weapon to the military for so long.

That said, trying to take out a charging grizzly with a .45 semi-auto? Nah, the average shooter's hold steady and trigger pull skills are so poor with a semi-auto that most folks under the stress of a charging grizzly will probably miss with every shot except the last one or two and by then an 800 lb menace that's determined to shred them from end-to-end will be upon them.

We used to do stress marksmanship training at the range when I was in the army. We'd set up a sort of obstacle course for our MP's to go through as they ran up to the firing line. They'd have to do a bunch of situps, pushups and mountain climbers and then climb over and under some walls, low crawl under an obstacle for about 25 meters and then sprint for a 100 meters. By the time they actually got onto the line and picked up their weapons the adreneline was pumping. As they all came up to the line, everyone would insert their magazine, chamber a round and stand by for the command to fire. As soon as the slowest person through his obstacles reached the line and had chambered his round, the command was given to fire and they would all discharge their entire magazine rapid-fire into the targets in their lanes aiming center-of-mass.

Even the best marksmen among them had a hard time putting kill shots into a stationary silhouette less than 10 meters away the first time they came through. The smart one's would take a long time to get that first round off and then would just unload the rest as fast as they could pull the trigger. The not-so-smart would simply bang away hoping to hit it. Out of eight shooters, maybe, maybe one or two of the smart ones would make a kill shot with that first round the first time through and maybe one or two others would place a round where it might have spun the subject off his feet or taken him down. You had to run folks through the process five or six times before they'd manage to get control of the weapon sufficient to make kill shots.

Someone totin' a weapon around in a bag and then yanking it out at that last second to whale away at a bear? Living through that would be, in my opinion, just dumb luck.

I dunno about the pepper spray either. He's still got to get pretty close to you, no? So, he's charging, you spray him and you get him but some of that stuff splashes into your own face. What happens then? You are both sitting there blinded and trying to clear your eyes. What if the grizz clears his eyes first and you're still standing there rubbing your eyes with no way to see him? You've suddenly become the helpless target of a very angry bear.

I'm no expert and I've never run into one; but I've always heard that they are nervous and don't like to encounter men; so I tend to make lots of noise whenever I'm walking through the woods. I figure it will let anything like a grizzly or a puma know well in advance that a human is approaching so that they'll beat feet and we'll never have to know what's the best way to survive an attack.

How the hell did we get here from a funny placard?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

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Hi John,

That had been represented on Military.com just within the past two weeks as a video of the kill shots made by Canadian sniper Rob Furlong, who now holds the record for the longest kill shot ever made. Where did you see it debunked?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Read the comments following the clip. It was shot in Nevada.

While we're on the subject, check out the following RE calibers and bra mishaps while shooting. Heather LaCroix is terrific!

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Most of you might have seen this, but this dude thought it was a good idea to shoot at something metal....Listen to the whistle after the shot, that is the sound of a bis ass bullet headed back at him.

Too bad he didn't have a lump of coal you know where, he'd be a rich man now.

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I kind of dug the chick with the MP5 and silencer about 10 clips later. We had one of those for our PSD team back in Bremerhaven. It was a kick to shoot.

Germans really know how to put together an automatic weapon.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

My gal just got a Ruger LCP .380. We went to a friend's farm for target practice and, I'm telling you, if you can watch an otherwise feminine woman squeeze off a few rounds and not have your heartbeat accelerate a few notches, you're a better man than I.

I'm talking SEXY . . .

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I'm talking SEXY . . .

Only if she knows what she's doing. Otherwise, it's SCARY . . .

'course that goes for any gender.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Oh, she knows what she's doing. She can hit the head of a silhouette with every shot from 7 yards out.

A head shot is about all a .380 is good for, though it make's for a fair b-u-g.

The Ruger LCP is wicked small, and designed for CC. We looked at a small .40 caliber--by Bersa, I think--but it was too large and too heavy for a purse.

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tn_20109417503_ruger_lcp-small.jpg

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