Report for Critique - Jim Katen

[gtblum]

The hardest thing for me has been deciding too much, or not enough.

Sometimes I consider who my client is. I try to treat and write to each one as an individual. Never losing sight of the fact that I'm attempting to make sure I cover my butt as well.

I use a cover shot of the house. I think a report is most definately a sales brochure. Maybe the best there is. Buying a house or a car is like getting pregnant. Friends seem to do it at the same time. We do this every day. (sometimes) The buyers don't. It's easy to forget that. It is a people business too.

I'm only two and a half years in.

I think I'm on the right track thanks to what I've learned from threads like this one.

Thanks

[Jim Katen]

In the Introduction section, there's this disclaimer comment which seems to make its way into a lot inspector's reports. Maybe insurance companies require it; I don't know.

I assume no liability... for unreported defects.

I can't imagine that any judge would enforce this statement that if you missed something, as long as it's unreported, you're not liable. At least that's the way I read it. It's like stating that your limit of liablity is the cost of the inspection, even it it's not enforceable in your state.

As it happens, I've been considering dropping that. It's there because of advice from my lawyer many, many years ago. He suggested that it might be possible for a judge to throw out my contract, but he could never throw out my report. Therefore, he suggested, it would be smart to restate the terms of the contract here & there within the body of the report so that a client could never say that he was unaware of them. I think it was ok advice, but not my style. I got rid of almost all of them. This is one of the last to go.

Thanks.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

1) Is there a non-Physical Inspection available?

Ah yes, at one time in the distant past. The "physical inspection" conceit is leftover from my association with HUD when we had both physical & non-physical inspections. It is a bit odd, though, isn't it? Thing is, I really hate the term "home inspection" for reasons I'd rather not go into. I might just drop the introductory words & have the address stand alone. That would buy some nice white space.

2) It's one of the least boring reports I've read in a long time. Still boring, but minimally boring. (they're all boring, this is not an insult, it's a compliment.)

3) Why is it necessary to write so much about simple things? I'd rather see something with a tenth as many words. It's entirely clear you understand exactly what you're seeing, but can the customer skim the report and understand?

Well, that's the theory behind the little headlines. If a person were in a hurry, he could simply skim each page & easily pick up the headlines. If one interested him in particular, he could read into it more deeply or just skip ahead to the numbered recommendation. The graphical arrangement allows the reader to quickly grab as much or as little info as he wants.

Reason I ask, does anyone do more than skim a report nowadays?

Some do & some don't. Those that do, *really* get into it.

4) How much does the report software define the style and length of the report? From my view, it's "too much software"; the software is defining what you're doing. I have the feeling that if there was different software, you'd create a much leaner and more concise report.

Not at all. The "too much" is all me, not the software. It lets me do as much or as little as I want. In fact it's the least obtrusive software on the market -- that is, it does what I want it to do, but it doesn't get in the way of letting me do pretty much anything else I want. (It's Cramer's IR, by the way, though I doubt that even he would recognize what I've done with it.)

5) There's two reports. There's the report, then there's the summary report, and you have to read the main report so you can understand the summary, and I found myself going back and forth between the two to understand it.

Yes, that's true. But the market research I've done shows that customers overwhelmingly prefer to have both parts. Yeah, I know, but we showed them several variations, & they picked this one.

Single comments, combining all elements of what you're trying to say, made as simple as possible, is better.

Different style.

Thanks,

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

I did not read all of it, but did enjoy the first 20 or so pages.

I did find the use of "at this time" or similiar statements as distracting.

Not many inspectors out there could write this!

Thanks, Les.

I did a search for the phrase "at this time" & couldn't find it. After a quick skim, I couldn't even find similar phrases, perhaps I'm inured to them. Can you point out some specific places where they seem particularly distracting?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[kurt]

Last comment, because overall it's a really kickass report.......

From what you said in the other thread, it takes waaaaay too long to put it all together.

How do you reconcile the fact you're spending well over an 8 hour day on a single job with the amount of money you charge for that single job? Are you getting a grand for that little dump?

I know the answer, which is the same as mine........you aren't.

Which leads to the inevitable, i.e., how the heck do we do what we have to do, and make money? With your report system, you can't make the hourly hit we all know we need to make to maintain our operations.

Harsh reality. It's too complicated and too long to assemble the report. Same as mine. Although I'm almost done with my secret weapon..........

[Jim Katen]

You have photos with captions like "missing vapor barrier" and "missing insulation" yet I didn't see those items in the photos.

Aside from that, a clean and tight report with very little fluff. Top 1% of the reports I've read.

Perhaps "no vapor barrier" would work better.

Thanks,

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

I believe that you go into too much detail in areas.

One example is this:

Improper Drain Fittings

In the crawlspace under the kitchen & bathroom, the

shower drainpipe joins the main drainpipe via a sanitary tee

that’s placed on its back. This is a classic amateur plumbing

error. Sanitary tees are vent fittings; they don’t have

enough of a sweep to direct the wastewater in the proper

path without slowing its velocity. The installer should have

used a wye or a combo fitting in this location.3 The use of a

sanitary tee might cause the waste pipe to drain poorly.

34. Have your plumber review the waste plumbing

under the kitchen & bathroom and install

proper fittings where necessary. In particular, remove the sanitary tee that’s on its

back and replace it with a proper wye or combo fitting.

Would it be better to shorten it to say something along the lines of:

A vent pipe fitting was used in lieu of a drain pipe fitting in this area, which may lead to drainage issues yada yada yada. Hire a plumber to xxxxxx........

PS: I stole borrowed some of your wording for my own reports-- thanks.

I go into too much detail in several areas. Sometimes it's simply lack of discipline or rigor -- as Mark Twain supposedly said, "I'd have made this letter shorter, but I didn't have the time." At other times I go into detail with a purpose. Sometimes I'm "pre-arguing" an objection that I know will be raised. Other times I'm giving a little free advice & guidance to a buyer who's planning to repair something himself. The paragraph you quoted is one of those. If I were really expecting a plumber to do the repair, I'd write something like what you wrote. But since I fully expect that this guy is going to do the repair himself, I pointed him in the right direction.

Remember that almost none of this is boilerplate. It's custom written for the particular house & the particular customer de jour. If I ran into that exact same plumbing arrangement 5 times next week, I'd write it up 5 different ways.

Thanks,

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

The report is very well written and the technical information is excellent. It has an incredible amount of detail - to much detail, in my opinion. I'm pretty sure most of your clients are only skimming through the body of the report, just like I did after a while.

I just have a few questions for you to consider:

1. What's the purpose of the "glamor shot" of the house? I think it's unnecessary since this ain't a sales brochure.

Oh, that's a sore subject. I resisted the glamour shot for years. I teased, taunted, & humiliated inspectors who put a pretty picture of the house on their reports. Then I did some market research. First understand that every customer loves every home inspection report - at least at first. But if you show them several reports side by side, they always show a strong preference. My partners & I put together a survey that contained several different report formats and then we shopped them around to many different people (none of them realtors and none of them past clients). These included auto mechanics, reference librarians, artists, attorneys, engineers, truck drivers, you name it, we got them to sift through 4 sample reports & fill out a survey about them. Pretty much everyone, across the board, showed a distinct preference for my report format. But there was universal lamentation about the fact that my report didn't have a picture of the house on the front. (All the others did.) Several people were quite strident about it. Jeez. So I started putting the glamour shot it. (Actually, for a while I put a picture of the front of the house at the front of the report and a picture of the back of the house at the back of the report -- in protest -- but no one got the joke.

2. Is the lengthy disclaimer needed because you don't have this stuff in the pre-inspection agreement?

No, it's all in the contract. It's just repeated on the advice of counsel.

3. Do you think it would be easier to read without wrapping text around pictures. I would prefer a larger image below the text describing the issue.

Might be, but that would make it longer. The wrapping doesn't bother me and it didn't come up in the market research, even though some of the other formats did exactly what you suggest.

4. Can something be missing if it never existed?

Yeah, yeah, I know.

5. Wouldn't it be easier to comprehend if multiple defects (electrical) were in a simple numbered list? I can't imagine a buyer following or understanding the very specific details described in the report.

I often do it exactly that way. In fact, I have a macro that makes it pretty painless. In this particular case, though, I felt that the buyer needed some more explicit information about each defect.

6. No advice about electric baseboards?

I only do that with the older baseboards that don't have the modern high limit systems. With modern baseboards, I rarely say anything about them.

7. Does insulating pipes really prevent them from freezing?

It doesn't make freezing impossible, but it makes it less likely.

8. Almost every farmhouse built here before 1860 has 2-3 of those "dangerous" winders for the entire flight of each stairway. They fit nicely at the end of the home between the fireplaces and exterior wall. Would you always recommend rebuilding all stairways "to a safe, modern standard", considering it would require relocating the stairwell, altering the structure and original historic character?

Ah, but look carefully, it's not just the winders. It's the little set of steps that are nested into the winders that run off to one side. This stairway is easily one of the most dangerous I've ever seen. No, I don't always recommend rebuilding stairs to a safe modern standard. I wrie whatever I feel is appropriate for that house & that set of buyers. Remember, this isn't boilerplate. It was written just for this house and I might never write that particular paragraph again.

PS. I've significantly improved my report writing since participating here at TIJ. Many of the changes I've made are directly from Jim K.

Thanks,

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

Jim,

Where you wrote more about an item, did you do that based on these particular clients, and would you write less if a client was more familiar with the problem you are reporting on?

Chris

Ah, but you know I do. Lots of parameters affect how I write the report.

I'd write the report differently if I were inspecting the house for a different set of buyers, or if it was raining, or if I had just attended a seminar, or if it were in a different city. Heck, I'd write the report differently if I had two inspections that day.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

Jim,

I like it and will be using some of the comments from it since you write better than I.

I haven't read it completely yet but I would like to know is who software you are using or is this something you came up with.

If it is someones software how easy is it to change around and install canned comments. I am weak on my writing on the go so I use can comments and may a few changes as needed.

I am a dumba** when it come to make changes in a software program.

Thanks, Phillip. The software is Mark Cramer's Intelligent Reporter combined with Devwave's Photo Drop. I've saved about a half dozen of Mark's canned comments because I really like them. I tossed all the others and wrote myself about 750 (?) of my own comments. I rarely use more than a dozen or so in any particular report, though, most of what you see is custom written on the fly.

Cramer's report is very easy to use and extremely flexible. Probably the most flexible thing out there. That's why I chose it, I could make it look the way I wanted it to look, and act the way I wanted it to act.

IR has its own photo insertion feature, but, frankly, I much prefer Devwave's version because it allows me more flexibility.

If you buy IR, though, don't expect it to look anything like mine. I've made fairly extensive alterations to it. My version fits me like a glove, but it might not fit you so well.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

. . . No one cares because they don't understand, and they don't understand because they don't care. Maybe one person a year will care enough to question why a vent tee shouldn't be used for a sanitary line.

"The drain pipe under the kitchen has an incorrect fitting that could cause the drain to malfunction. Have a plumber fix it and any other mistakes he finds."

Include a picture with an arrow pointing at the vent tee. If someone's curious what's wrong, tell them.

What more is there?

Ah, but this guy cared. He wanted more info, so he got it. On tomorrow's house, I might write just what you suggested and on the day after that, something entirely different.

But I get the larger meaning of your point.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

. . . I swiped the oven anti tip graphic.

Hey, I swiped it from someone here. I also swiped Kurt's old picture of the kid sticking the knife into the receptacle. I use it when recommending TR receptacles, which I didn't recommend here.

Is that the best photo resolution you can get out of that software? If so, I dont like that part.

I can make the resolution as good or as bad as I want. It's usuallly much better. I purposely cranked it down to make the file smaller for this venue.

When you recommend upgrading smoke alarms, why not recommend hardwired, battery backed and interconnected?

The smoke alarm recommendation is lifted directly from our state requirements. I could recommend more, but frankly, I'm not convinced that hardwired alarms are any better than 10-year alarms.

Thanks for the feedback.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

Last comment, because overall it's a really kickass report.......

From what you said in the other thread, it takes waaaaay too long to put it all together.

How do you reconcile the fact you're spending well over an 8 hour day on a single job with the amount of money you charge for that single job? Are you getting a grand for that little dump?

I know the answer, which is the same as mine........you aren't.

Which leads to the inevitable, i.e., how the heck do we do what we have to do, and make money? With your report system, you can't make the hourly hit we all know we need to make to maintain our operations.

Harsh reality. It's too complicated and too long to assemble the report. Same as mine. Although I'm almost done with my secret weapon..........

Well, it depends. If I had two inspections scheduled for that day, I woudn't have invested so much time in the report. The nice thing about a custom report is that I can spend as much time as I want on it. If I really had to, I could rely much more heavily on my boilerplate, make more general, less specific recommendations, & cut my report time significantly. I must admit that, before the slowdown, my reports went together much, much faster. Now that I have more time, I give more of it away. It'll be hard going back to two a day everyday when the economy improves.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Phillip]

Jim,

I like it and will be using some of the comments from it since you write better than I.

I haven't read it completely yet but I would like to know is who software you are using or is this something you came up with.

If it is someones software how easy is it to change around and install canned comments. I am weak on my writing on the go so I use can comments and may a few changes as needed.

I am a dumba** when it come to make changes in a software program.

Thanks, Phillip. The software is Mark Cramer's Intelligent Reporter combined with Devwave's Photo Drop. I've saved about a half dozen of Mark's canned comments because I really like them. I tossed all the others and wrote myself about 750 (?) of my own comments. I rarely use more than a dozen or so in any particular report, though, most of what you see is custom written on the fly.

Cramer's report is very easy to use and extremely flexible. Probably the most flexible thing out there. That's why I chose it, I could make it look the way I wanted it to look, and act the way I wanted it to act.

IR has its own photo insertion feature, but, frankly, I much prefer Devwave's version because it allows me more flexibility.

If you buy IR, though, don't expect it to look anything like mine. I've made fairly extensive alterations to it. My version fits me like a glove, but it might not fit you so well.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

I have IR and I have problems with not able to get it to say the comments I want So I haven't changed the comments in it and use another type of report.

[Tom Raymond]

I gotta say, I like it. There are a few places where it gets wordy, but so what? I get the custom narrative and how flexible it is. When your good at it, each report fits your client as well as the system fits you. I hope to be that good one day.

I emulated your report when I designed mine because I liked it, but I axed the summary. My report is my summary. If my client wants or needs a condensed version then they can condense it themselves. Change the heading to 'Closing Comments' or 'Conclusion' or some such, and delete all of the bold text after your evaluation and comparison to similar structures. The report should naturally end with your conclusion, the rest is just clutter. If you must keep the summary, loose the page numbers. Since each comment is sequentially numbered they're easy enough to find. As you say, much needed white space.

Thanks for sharing, I've learned alot.

[John Kogel]

Thanks, Jim. Anyone learning the trade would do well to read every word of that report. I have to admit, I skimmed parts of it. Some of your clients may do the same, but that would be their folly.

A question: Why Black poly on the floor of the crawlspace? How is it better than clear?

[Phillip]

A question: Why Black poly on the floor of the crawlspace? How is it better than clear?

I'm not Jim but it seems that black poly last longer than the clear

[resqman]

In the Heating section you list the Age: 2005.

This implies that the heating system was made 5 BC. You may either want to change the title to Manufacture Date or the number to reflect the actual age (5 years old)

Similar issue with regards to the water heater and roof

[Jim Katen]

Thanks, Jim. Anyone learning the trade would do well to read every word of that report. I have to admit, I skimmed parts of it. Some of your clients may do the same, but that would be their folly.

A question: Why Black poly on the floor of the crawlspace? How is it better than clear?

It blocks out light. With clear, I often see terrarium-like conditions near the vents where light strike it -- lots of organic growth under the plastic.

Also, in those areas where it's exposed to light, the clear stuff breaks down faster.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

In the Heating section you list the Age: 2005.

This implies that the heating system was made 5 BC. You may either want to change the title to Manufacture Date or the number to reflect the actual age (5 years old)

Similar issue with regards to the water heater and roof

Hey, how do you know it wasn't manufactured in 5 BC? Those Bryant furnaces really last.

Actually, I meant to change that long ago and simply forgot. Since then it's been invisible to me -- one of the reasons that I wanted to post a report here.

Thanks.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Michael Brown]

I like it (best report I've ever seen posted here). One of the better report formats for sure. Does the software make the two column lists or do you format that manually? We just give an option to make the Table of Contents two column, but I think the two column lists look better also.

Michael Brown

DevWave Software Inc.

[Jim Katen]

I like it (best report I've ever seen posted here). One of the better report formats for sure. Does the software make the two column lists or do you format that manually? We just give an option to make the Table of Contents two column, but I think the two column lists look better also.

The software didn't make two column lists out of the box. I altered the template to create the columns. Now the software creates the two-column lists. That is, I don't recreate them every time I write a report. Is that what you were wondering?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Terence McCann]

© James Katen. All rights reserved.

Did you really apply for a copyright?

In the crawlspace, some of the support posts & piers are

well installed and some are poorly installed.

I've never heard of something being "well installed". Could be a regional thing I guess.

[Jim Katen]

© James Katen. All rights reserved.

Did you really apply for a copyright?

No. The report is copyrighted as soon as I write it, there's no need to apply for it. The notice on the bottom of the page is simply there to alert people to this fact. It reminds them that the report belongs to me, not them.

If I wanted to register it, I'd have to apply to register every single report I write. That would create a public record of my copyright, but it wouldn't make my copyright any more or less valid.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

In the crawlspace, some of the support posts & piers are

well installed and some are poorly installed.

I've never heard of something being "well installed". Could be a regional thing I guess.

How about well built? Well maintained? Well made?

I think you're just tripping on the passive voice in that sentence. How would your express the idea?

- Jim Katen, Oregon