emalernee Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I print my "Safety" and "Defective" findings in Red Ink. And, yes, most agents find me to be an alarmist, Clients find me handsome. Ezra Malernee Canton, Ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 The thing that one needs to keep in mind when doing commercial inspections is that the client hasn't got an emotional attachment to the building in question. Buying it is strictly a business decision and if a building has Zinsco or FPE panels the client's primary concern is what the bottom line of what it will cost to replace the panels is going to be. Compared to the overall cost of the whole building, that cost might be negligible. I think it's important not to understate the serioiusness of the issue but at the same time you must recognize that there are inherent differences and priorities in play with commercial inspections. State the issue and then concentrate on finding out what it's going to cost to rectify it - that's the information the client needs more than anything else. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randynavarro Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 The general gist here is to protect the "client" and be honest with him or her. In this case, it appears the client may be the trouble as they even want the report modified so they can get the loan. As already mentioned, who is protecting the 12 people/families in those units? The client here could end up being a slum lord and a negligent property owner. If the bank requires the panels to be replaced then good! What I've learned about this whole housing/real estate world over the years is that no one wants to make a stand and be the bad guy and actually require something to happen. All the way from the buyer up the food chain, even to the United State Congress. In some small way, I sleep better at night knowing that I took a stand and stated the truth and wouldn't budge. A building inspecting unit's responsibility extends far beyond the "client" in my opinioin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As an aside, why do we keep referring to this an a "commercial inspection" when the property is residential? - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As an aside, why do we keep referring to this an a "commercial inspection" when the property is residential? - Jim Katen, Oregon In most places unless a property of this nature is townhouses it is considered multi-family and falls under the commercial code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Three or more units is commercial for code purposes here, although our licensing law considers 4 units the maximum for a 'home inspection'. Anything bigger is commercial unless the scope is limited to an individual unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As an aside, why do we keep referring to this an a "commercial inspection" when the property is residential? - Jim Katen, Oregon It's in the OP. I recently inspected a 12 unit apartment building. The building has all Zinsco sub-panels, meters panels and main disconnects.An apartment building is a commercial building; at least under our rules here. Here, anything up to four units is residential; anything over that is considered commercial. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As an aside, why do we keep referring to this an a "commercial inspection" when the property is residential? - Jim Katen, Oregon In most places unless a property of this nature is townhouses it is considered multi-family and falls under the commercial code. What's a "commercial code?" Here we have a residential code that covers single family and small multi-family buildings but everything else is covered by the Oregon version of the IBC. There isn't a special "commercial code" that I'm aware of. Those occupancies as well as larger multi-family occupancies are covered by the IBC. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As an aside, why do we keep referring to this an a "commercial inspection" when the property is residential? - Jim Katen, Oregon It's in the OP. I recently inspected a 12 unit apartment building. The building has all Zinsco sub-panels, meters panels and main disconnects.An apartment building is a commercial building; at least under our rules here. Here, anything up to four units is residential; anything over that is considered commercial. Four units? In Oregon, any structure with a residential occupancy up to for *stories* is considered residential. It's got to be 5 stories or more to be commercial. Perhaps that's just an Oregon thing. In either case, a 12-unit apartment building is still a residential occupancy. The rest is semantics. You're inspecting a place that's designed as housing, not a factory, office building, storefront, or warehouse. I'd refer to it as a multi-family residential inspection, not a commercial one. Maybe that's just me. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As an aside, why do we keep referring to this an a "commercial inspection" when the property is residential? - Jim Katen, Oregon In most places unless a property of this nature is townhouses it is considered multi-family and falls under the commercial code. What's a "commercial code?" Here we have a residential code that covers single family and small multi-family buildings but everything else is covered by the Oregon version of the IBC. There isn't a special "commercial code" that I'm aware of. Those occupancies as well as larger multi-family occupancies are covered by the IBC. - Jim Katen, Oregon Hi, Yeah, I agree. One and two-family under the IRC but everything else falls under the IBC. It's that way here too and I suspect that the "commercial code" he is referring to is the IBC. A home inspector here could use the IRC for a one or two-family home and the IBC for a triplex or quadraplex and would inspect those buildings according to the state-mandated home inspection SOP. Multi-family housing outside of that range here is considered commercial housing/buildings and inspectors who do those and other commercial buildings and properties exclusively fall outside of DOL's jurisdiction over home inspectors. There is a defensible SOP of sorts for commercial building inspectors and that's ASTM E 2018-08. Brad can look to that for additional guidance with this one. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nookandcranny Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Alarmist? Nah, you told them that this problem can be easily addressed by someone licensed to do it. Maybe I have a different definition of alarmist: Run away! Run far away! There's no hope for this building; it should be razed. Oh, and by the way, this neighborhood is terrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Does a Zinsco panel have the self awareness to know whether it is installed in a residential or commercial setting? Marc [:-thumbu] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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