New GFCI receptacles in place of split receptacles

[ejager]

Good day to you all,

Just inspected a home where in the course of replacing all the cupboards and counters int he kitchen, someone installed GFCI receptables where split receptacles once were. No other changes to the elctrical system were noted. The original 14/3 wire is still installed, but the red wires were simply marretted and left in the box. Breakers are original and still tied together in the panel.

So now we have half as many circuits supplying the kitchen, and although they are GFCI protected, they are only 15 amps.

How do you write this up? What is your biggest concern?

If it had been your kitchen, what would you have done?

[Tom Raymond]

It's an easy fix, get one of these: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... reNum=1273.

I suppose one could add another GFCI receptacle on the red side of the circuit, but with split duplexes there is potential for only half the MWBC to trip leaving the other half energized. If it were mine, I'd alternate the duplexes (red/black/red) as opposed to splitting them. If a GFCI breaker isn't available for the panel in that house, what you have may be safer, but you need a single pole breaker and the red wire should be disconnected in the panel.

[Marc]

Supposed to be at least two 20A circuits serving the kitchen CT. If you've only one circuit left then that exacerbates the situation.

Marc

[Jim Port]

The OP is in Canada where the rules are different.

GFI's cannot be split wired like the CEC used to require so the one hot was abandoned.

[ejager]

GFI's cannot be split wired like the CEC used to require so the one hot was abandoned.

I personally would like to have seen the double pole GFI's used. Rather than limiting the kitchen to 2 15 Amp counter circuits, from 4. I know they are pricey but its certainly the more elegant solution.

[John Kogel]

That work was done by a home owner or contractor who probably was not a licensed electrician, so you have a valid reason to call for a licensed and qualified electrician to make repairs.

As Marc pointed out, the replacement circuit, even in Canada, must be a 20 amp circuit, with #12 copper wiring installed. Otherwise, it is all wrong.

BTW, only the receptacles either side of the sink need to be GFI'd in Canada. Leave the split duplexes as is on the others.

[Jim Katen]

GFI's cannot be split wired like the CEC used to require so the one hot was abandoned.

I personally would like to have seen the double pole GFI's used. Rather than limiting the kitchen to 2 15 Amp counter circuits, from 4. I know they are pricey but its certainly the more elegant solution.

No, it won't work. The double pole GFCI will only work with 240-volt circuits. If you hook it up to a multiwire circuit, it'll trip the first time you try to use either half.

I probably would have just run two new circuits. Hell, I would have run three.

[John Kogel]

GFI's cannot be split wired like the CEC used to require so the one hot was abandoned.

I personally would like to have seen the double pole GFI's used. Rather than limiting the kitchen to 2 15 Amp counter circuits, from 4. I know they are pricey but its certainly the more elegant solution.

No, it won't work. The double pole GFCI will only work with 240-volt circuits. If you hook it up to a multiwire circuit, it'll trip the first time you try to use either half.

I probably would have just run two new circuits. Hell, I would have run three.

Thanks Jim. That Double-pole GFCI is a 50 amp breaker. But some ad-man at Home Depot says right there on the world wide web "This breaker is especially useful for covering multiple outlets around potentially wet areas, such as kitchen countertops, bathrooms, swimming pools, hot tubs and outside a house. "

In fact, anywhere you might want to install a 50 amp GFCI. []

Mis-info like that should be criminalized, eh?

I tried replacing the 50 in the model # with 20 and 15 and came up blank, so we'll just have to use that one. Not.

[Jim Katen]

Thanks Jim. That Double-pole GFCI is a 50 amp breaker. But some ad-man at Home Depot says right there on the world wide web "This breaker is especially useful for covering multiple outlets around potentially wet areas, such as kitchen countertops, bathrooms, swimming pools, hot tubs and outside a house. "

In fact, anywhere you might want to install a 50 amp GFCI. []

Mis-info like that should be criminalized, eh?

I tried replacing the 50 in the model # with 20 and 15 and came up blank, so we'll just have to use that one. Not.

The only place I see those breakers used is for hot tubs.

I think that the uses for a 20-amp two-pole GFCI breaker would be few.