allseason Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 I was in a circa 1890 boarding house recently. Central heat with steam boiler(s), Utica circa 1978. I have not seen a set up like this before, it looks like two boilers with individual burners attached to each other as you would sections of a radiator. When tested only one side fired up. Is the other side to provide addtional heat should the one burner be inadequate or should both run together. There is only one thermostat, TPRV, low water cut off , etc. New to me, anyone familiar with this arrangment? Click to Enlarge 96.2 KB Click to Enlarge 46.66 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 That set-up is common for replacements of big old boilers (easier to get two sections down the narrow basement stairs). For steam, both sides should be firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 What Kibble said. I see this occasionally, although I've never seen one where only one unit fires. If there's a single T-stat, it should fire both boilers, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 If there's a single T-stat, it should fire both boilers, no? Like Bill said- for steam both units should fire. For hydronic, they could be set-up with a pair of aquastats so the second one fires only when the primary cannot keep up with demand ...or they could be setup with one aquastat so that they both fired on demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Yeah, OK. I've just seen them with a single aqua stat, single t-stat, boilers run in parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Also, copper risers? That is an unfailing sign of an installer who doesn't understand steam systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseason Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Also, copper risers? That is an unfailing sign of an installer who doesn't understand steam systems. True, but common unfortunately. Thanks for all the input fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Also, copper risers? That is an unfailing sign of an installer who doesn't understand steam systems. K-copper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Also, copper risers? That is an unfailing sign of an installer who doesn't understand steam systems. K-copper? It doesn't matter what type of copper. It expands and contracts and the joints fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Are you familiar with brazed type -k copper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Yes, I am. Are you attempting to defend using copper for steam risers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Im just saying that sometimes there is more than one option,especially on a small boiler . My first question on that particular boiler from what i see in the picture is where is the insulation on the lines,and since im willing to bet it was asbestos who removed and how did they remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 No option on steam. Iron. Pipefitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 http://www.copper.org/applications/plum ... stems.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... a8u3tLAz1Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Who'd have ever imagined that Copper.org would think it's OK? Of course there's lots of stuff one can do if they're so inclined. Personally, I pay attention to the guys installing and working on steam systems for the last century. Other's can listen to professional organization webmeisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Not only do the joints leak, but the rest of the copper gets perforated. I don't know what flies in other parts of the country, but we rarely see copper risers on a steam system, and when we do, it's obvious why it's such a bad idea. Type K brazed copper? Never seen it on a steam system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Who'd have ever imagined that Copper.org would think it's OK? Of course there's lots of stuff one can do if they're so inclined. Personally, I pay attention to the guys installing and working on steam systems for the last century. Other's can listen to professional organization webmeisters. Did you notice the copper guys posted the standards from the engineering books?You guys seem to like to have it both ways around here. When it fits what you want its because the national electric code says and thats the only answer,it doesnt matter what problems the guys in the field have with it because they obviously were installing it wrong. But when the code says it can be done and they show you the standards to back it up it doesnt matter,because the guys in the fitters union dont like to do it that way. So exactly how many of you guys have a 3rd grade engineers license,or any kind of a back ground or actual hands on experiance other than pointing at a boiler in house? [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Like I said, there's lots of ways to do stuff. I'm all for engineers saying it's OK and doing it any way they want on their jobs. The engineers I work with know that copper is a bad way to go. Everyone gets to choose. I choose what I know works. Are there a lot of steam systems in Louisville, Nebraska? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Ive got an old 93hp kewanee in one of my buildings in omaha,no copper on that one but its also the size of my old chevy cube van and heats 27 apartments and 6 commercial bays. There are many updated steam boilers around omaha,and many of them have k copper plumbed into them theyve been running for years without issues. Many of the hot water boilers I still work on around omaha still run steel piping,some of them have been repiped in copper it depends on when they were installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Lewis Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Also, copper risers? That is an unfailing sign of an installer who doesn't understand steam systems. Copper risers for the Peerless steam boiler my basement. 23 years old and no leakage whatsover. And yup, it's piped with a bullheaded tee... Any chance there was an outdoor reset for that system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 So is there anything in a mechanical code book that says you can never use K-copper under any circumstances in any steam boiler? I mean since most of you guys(not all of you)seem to like to get your answers directly from a book. [:-monkeyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Also, copper risers? That is an unfailing sign of an installer who doesn't understand steam systems. Copper risers for the Peerless steam boiler my basement. 23 years old and no leakage whatsover. And yup, it's piped with a bullheaded tee... Any chance there was an outdoor reset for that system? Could you post a picture of your boiler install?[] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Oh, lighten up. You show up out of nowhere and proceed to respond to every post from the last 5 years, then go all agro with a bunch of strangers. Use copper of it's important to you. Sheesh....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 No you need to lighten up ,i went through the same bunch of crap from you guys on the A coil post when i talked about using oversize coils with you guys rattling on about i didnt know what i was talking about,then i posted the manufacturers suggestions for over size coils proving it was legitimate. As i was basically told years of field experiance meant nothing if it wasnt designed by an engineer or in a code book . So now im just asking where it says in the code that K-copper cannot never be used in a steam boiler system,and no the experiance from old guys whove been in the field for 100 years doesnt count as you guys have already said.[^] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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