rkenney Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I wonder...Is a central HVAC system personal or real property? Marc Central AC is an 'improvement' to real property and is typically included in any transfer of ownership. Improvement to real property means "a permanent addition to or betterment of real property that enhances its capital value and that involves the expenditure of labor or money and is designed to make the property more useful or valuable as distinguished from ordinary repairs." Integrity Floorcovering, Inc. v. Broan-Nutone, LLC, 521 F.3d 914, 917-918 (8th Cir. Minn. 2008) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Bob, you have cited a really interesting case. HVAC is not an improvement in most instances. It is a component(s) that can be "improved". hvac commonly means different components but not always air conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Bob, you have cited a really interesting case. HVAC is not an improvement in most instances. It is a component(s) that can be "improved". hvac commonly means different components but not always air conditioning. I think it is a confusion of terms. A masonry fireplace could be called an improvement. It's a permanent improvement, and so is the HVAC system. Personal property leaves the home with the seller. Or it goes into the dumpster after they vacate. In my area, I will sometimes ask "are all the appliances included in the sale?" because often the old appliances are included, but sometimes the wife's new matched laundry set is leaving with them. Or the buyers will ask for the appliances to be gone, not interested in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I inspect real property. I do not inspect personal property. Precisely. I ran across a 1950's washing machine a month ago that I really wanted to play with. The semi-front load door arrangement resembled the grille on Mr. O's Packard. Fortunately my policy kept me on track, although I wish I had taken a pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenney Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Bob, you have cited a really interesting case. HVAC is not an improvement in most instances. It is a component(s) that can be "improved". hvac commonly means different components but not always air conditioning. The original question that Marc posted was wether a central HVAC system was personal property or real property. HVAC is not personal property, but can be excluded from a transaction by the contract. You simply remove it. The entire structure is an improvement. Real property is the land. It can be conveyed with or without 'improvments' or you can purchase the improvements (structure) without conveyance of unencumbered real property (the land - as in 'ground rents.') If you were to install HVAC in a house without one be prepared for your local government to assess this as an 'improvement.' This is the hidden agenda to permits. It allows government to keep track of property values by improvements that will be re-assesed come tax time (as allowed by law.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I inspect real property. I do not inspect personal property. Precisely. I ran across a 1950's washing machine a month ago that I really wanted to play with. The semi-front load door arrangement resembled the grille on Mr. O's Packard. Fortunately my policy kept me on track, although I wish I had taken a pic. Something like the '48 Bendix? Click to Enlarge 35.56 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Bob, you have cited a really interesting case. HVAC is not an improvement in most instances. It is a component(s) that can be "improved". hvac commonly means different components but not always air conditioning. The original question that Marc posted was wether a central HVAC system was personal property or real property. HVAC is not personal property, but can be excluded from a transaction by the contract. You simply remove it. The entire structure is an improvement. Real property is the land. It can be conveyed with or without 'improvments' or you can purchase the improvements (structure) without conveyance of unencumbered real property (the land - as in 'ground rents.') If you were to install HVAC in a house without one be prepared for your local government to assess this as an 'improvement.' This is the hidden agenda to permits. It allows government to keep track of property values by improvements that will be re-assesed come tax time (as allowed by law.) Sometimes we should not offer legal opinions. Consult your local personal atty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 More modern. The door and glass were chevron shaped, with rounded corners and more chrome that wrapped up and over the front edge of the top. That's a great looking machine though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenney Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Sometimes we should not offer legal opinions. Consult your local personal atty. I haven't offered one; have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeePlace Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hi, The question was should appliances be included in the SOP. I feel that the SOP should define personal property (unplug and take away) and real property (securly attached). A house that I inspected on Newport Coast had over $10k of appliances in two Kitchens. Called in an appliance tech to test them. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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