Uncle Dave Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I posted this on another forum but I didn't get much of a response, so I'm hoping some of the pro's can help me or point me in the right direction. On some of the rafters in my attic i have a white grainy substance on them. It started to happen after I boxed in my soffits about three months ago. I think the cause was that I didn't use large enough vents to allow enough air to vent back into the attic. A couple of days ago I taken down the plywood that I used to box in the soffits and allowed normal air flow back in. I did spray some of the boards with Tilex and them some Concrobium for mold and nothing happen. [/img] [/img] [/img] [/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 The first picture looks like a board that was used as a concrete form and later reused to frame the house. The second and third pictures don't look like anything. The fourth picture kind of looks like pocket rot - a condition that was in the tree before it was milled and that is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Well, You've got a self-inflicted wound there. Without air, moisture from the home just condensed on the underside of the roof and allowed fungi spore that was already there, and had always been there, to grow out of control. Google "Principles of Attic Ventilation - Air Vent Inc." and download a copy of that booklet. Read it. Then read it again. Then make sure you're attic ventilation is properly configured. Tilex is phospheric acid. It might kill the spore but it's probably going to break down cell structure. Stop using it. Concrobium will kill the spore buit that's it. It doesn't remove it. If you want to clean that mess up, you're going to need to get up in there with some soap and water and some scrub brushes. Alternatively, you can have the underside of the roof, the rafters, collar ties and joists soda blasted or dry ice blasted. Once the wood's been cleaned, saturate it with BoraCare or Concrobium. Whatever you do, by the time you're done, the insulation will be soaked and tamped down to the point of being useless; and, if you want to preserve heat in the home, you're going to end up pulling out all of that ruined insulation and reinsulating. Sorry to be so blunt but there's no easy way to administer thE kind of medicine that attic needs now. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Jim, I'd agree except for the fact he says that it didn't start until he'd boxed in the soffits. The stuff that looks like an old form board could be what the tilex did to the wood. Acid and wood don't like each other much. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Amaral Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Bad resolution photos ... take many more... Can't tell.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 There are probably no before pictures but I will speculate Uncle Bob just did not notice this before and is imagining that this all occurred in the last three months. The underside of the roof deck looks peculiarly dry and clean. I'll bet the rafters and joist have looked like this for years and years. Get someone with a moisture meter to test the wood. If this happened in the last 3 months that stuff has got to be wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 What Lamb said. Then after you know it's dry, address the ventilation issues and put 10 - 15 inches of cellulose up there. If the spore is dry it can't grow, and once it's covered...out of sight, out of mind. The only upside to removing it is for the guy getting paid to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Jim, I'd agree except for the fact he says that it didn't start until he'd boxed in the soffits. I don't believe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Top image definitely looks like form lumber reused. The roof deck is weird, almost looks like pressure-treated boards. What is the white stuff sitting on the top of the duct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Thanks for the recommended reading. My plan is to reinsulate once I get this squared away and have the old stuff taken out anyway. Would you recommend bringing in a Mold Remediator or Home Inspector to evaluate my attic? Well, You've got a self-inflicted wound there. Without air, moisture from the home just condensed on the underside of the roof and allowed fungi spore that was already there, and had always been there, to grow out of control. Google "Principles of Attic Ventilation - Air Vent Inc." and download a copy of that booklet. Read it. Then read it again. Then make sure you're attic ventilation is properly configured. Tilex is phospheric acid. It might kill the spore but it's probably going to break down cell structure. Stop using it. Concrobium will kill the spore buit that's it. It doesn't remove it. If you want to clean that mess up, you're going to need to get up in there with some soap and water and some scrub brushes. Alternatively, you can have the underside of the roof, the rafters, collar ties and joists soda blasted or dry ice blasted. Once the wood's been cleaned, saturate it with BoraCare or Concrobium. Whatever you do, by the time you're done, the insulation will be soaked and tamped down to the point of being useless; and, if you want to preserve heat in the home, you're going to end up pulling out all of that ruined insulation and reinsulating. Sorry to be so blunt but there's no easy way to administer thE kind of medicine that attic needs now. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'd only sprayed Tilex on picture number three and it didn't do anything. I have other boards that look like the "old form board" you're referring to. The others don't have the stains on it like something was spilled. I thought it was odd the way it looked and that was the reason I posted it. I started to box the soffits in over the summer so it has been a little over three months. I can't relate it to be caused by anything else. Jim, I'd agree except for the fact he says that it didn't start until he'd boxed in the soffits. The stuff that looks like an old form board could be what the tilex did to the wood. Acid and wood don't like each other much. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I will post more Photos tomorrow. I had others but they didn't turn out very well Bad resolution photos ... take many more... Can't tell.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I access my attic space at least once a month. I ran security camera cable and spent more time in the attic during the summer. In addition I had a problem with rats so I was in and out quite a bit. When I put the Christmas stuff back in the attic in January I notice something didn't look right so I been back in several times since then. I agree the roof deck is dry and I haven't notice or smelled any dampess. There are probably no before pictures but I will speculate Uncle Bob just did not notice this before and is imagining that this all occurred in the last three months. The underside of the roof deck looks peculiarly dry and clean. I'll bet the rafters and joist have looked like this for years and years. Get someone with a moisture meter to test the wood. If this happened in the last 3 months that stuff has got to be wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I like the idea of covering it up but I'm not sure about using cellulose because of the chemicals that are in it. The few insulating companies I spoken with here in Florida say FG. Is cellulose the way to go? What Lamb said. Then after you know it's dry, address the ventilation issues and put 10 - 15 inches of cellulose up there. If the spore is dry it can't grow, and once it's covered...out of sight, out of mind. The only upside to removing it is for the guy getting paid to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 ? Jim, I'd agree except for the fact he says that it didn't start until he'd boxed in the soffits. I don't believe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm not sure of what the white stuff is on the duct work. It looks like the same stuff that is on the wood. I get a some outside debris from the ridge vents. Probably from using the blower Top image definitely looks like form lumber reused. The roof deck is weird, almost looks like pressure-treated boards. What is the white stuff sitting on the top of the duct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Would you recommend bringing in a Mold Remediator or Home Inspector to evaluate my attic? A crack home inspector would be ideal for your needs and would be far more beneficial than an internet forum. I'd ask him to just look at the attic and tell you everything he can then start with your list of questions. I hesitate to recommend one because there's so many HIs out there that would be a complete waste of your money. Like houses, some are good and others are not. The good ones are few and hard to identify. Any chance you happen to be between Duval and Flagler Counties? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 It looks like an old beater attic with matted down insulation from (either past or present) animal/rodent habitation. I think Uncle Dave is simply seeing stuff he's never noticed previously. Now that he's got a baseline, come back in a year and look to see if anything's different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dave Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Marc I'm in Duval county. Would you recommend bringing in a Mold Remediator or Home Inspector to evaluate my attic? A crack home inspector would be ideal for your needs and would be far more beneficial than an internet forum. I'd ask him to just look at the attic and tell you everything he can then start with your list of questions. I hesitate to recommend one because there's so many HIs out there that would be a complete waste of your money. Like houses, some are good and others are not. The good ones are few and hard to identify. Any chance you happen to be between Duval and Flagler Counties? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I like the idea of covering it up but I'm not sure about using cellulose because of the chemicals that are in it. The few insulating companies I spoken with here in Florida say FG. Is cellulose the way to go? Given what I can see in the pics, cellulose is the way to go. Fiberglass is a cocktail of chemicals; colorants, adhesives, formaldehyde, etc. Cellulose is recycled newsprint spritzed with boric acid (the same stuff eye wash solution is made of) to make it flame resistant and undesirable to insects. The depth required to reach the recommended thermal barrier in Florida will completely cover the stained (and almost certainly re-used) framing materials, and prevent you from using it as storage. Dry it out, evict the rodents, insulate it, and stay out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Marc I'm in Duval county. Would you recommend bringing in a Mold Remediator or Home Inspector to evaluate my attic? A crack home inspector would be ideal for your needs and would be far more beneficial than an internet forum. I'd ask him to just look at the attic and tell you everything he can then start with your list of questions. I hesitate to recommend one because there's so many HIs out there that would be a complete waste of your money. Like houses, some are good and others are not. The good ones are few and hard to identify. Any chance you happen to be between Duval and Flagler Counties? Marc Then check this guy out: David Lord He's a member of this forum. I've read his posts here for years and he seems to have achieved a high level of competency but don't take my word for it, search this forum and read his posts yourself, read his sample report at his website then judge for yourself. I believe he can give you answers...correct ones. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 ? Jim, I'd agree except for the fact he says that it didn't start until he'd boxed in the soffits. I don't believe him. It means you're imagining the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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