Jerry Simon Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 New construction today, master bath circuit is 12 gauge copper with 20 ampere breaker, but the two bath receptacles are 15 ampere receptacles, not 20 amp rated. Sparky replies if only one receptacle is on the circuit, is should be a 20 ampere-rated receptacle...if there's more than one receptacle on this circuit, it's allowed, per NEC, to have only 15 ampere-rated receptacles. True? If so, why? Thanks very much for any insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarga Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 That is news to me. I've never herd anything like that before. I'm trying to look it up now but this damn NEC is not as user friendly as I would like.[:-banghead] Maybe Doug will have an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarga Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 OK, I think I found it. If I am wrong I will gladly accept correction . 2002 NEC 210.11(3)Bathroom branch circuits In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20 ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. Exception: Where the 20 Ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A). 210.23 Permissible loads. In no case shall the load exceed the branch-circuit Ampere rating. an individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated. A branch circuit supplying two or more outlets or receptacles shall supply only the loads specified according according to its size as specified in 210.24 and Table 210.24 (A) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits A 15- or 20- ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting units or other utilization equipment, or a combination of both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(2). Exception: The small appliances branch circuits, laundry branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(S) by 210.11©(1), (2), and (3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section. (1)Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment does not apply to this (2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place Does not apply to this Table 210.21(B)(3)Receptacle Ratings for Various Size Circuits Circuit Rating________Receptacle Rating (Amperes) 15---------------------Not over 15 20---------------------15 or 20 30------------------------30 40----------------------40 or 50 50------------------------50 Scott's commentary It could be argued that this is not the table described in 210.23(A) as referred to in 210.11(3). However, when you read 210.24 it appears to be OK 210.24 Branch-Circuit Requirements-Summary The requirements for circuits that have two or more outlets or receptacles, other than the receptacle circuits of 210.11©(1) and (2), are summarized in the table 210.24. Scott's note; Bathrooms are (3)This table provides only a summary of the minimum requirements. See 210.19, 210.20, and 210.21 for the specific requirements applying to branch circuits.[:-banghead][:-banghead] Scott's commentary In English 2002 NEC table 210.21(B)(3) and table 210.21(B)(2) Says it is OK to install 15 amp outlets on a 20 bathroom circuit.[:-graduate] See what I mean when I say it is not as easy as I would like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by Douglas Hansen I think I'll ask them watts up. Douglas Some inspectors will read this and laugh. I guess I'm just a resistor. Ba-dump bump -(splash cymbal) Jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 These are the sorts of discussions that scare me. I'm usually busy finding all manner of grotesque major defects in the City that I tend to overlook this sort of detail. Please pass the hairshirt........ Douglas is so correct that I should just study harder & charge more, but sometimes I have to study lots of other stuff instead of minutiae related to a single bathroom circuit. Could someone just say it in a sentence that is 20 words or less so that I can digest it & then move on to trying to understand the current changes to the Chicago Mechanical Code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarga Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Kurt As requested in English. The 2002 NEC Says it is OK to install 15 amp outlets on a 20 bathroom circuit. []Wow[], Having Doug say I did a good job is like having your mentor compliment you.[:-bonc01][:-bouncy][:-bonc01][:-bouncy][:-bonc01][:-bouncy][:-bonc01][:-bouncy] To bad he doesn't like me bitching about how hard it is to understand[:-banghead]. You would think he helped write it or something.[:-bulb] Oh, That's right he did.[:-censored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 In the last couple of weeks I've been hanging around an NEC code forum (reading only) trying to edjukate myself a little. There are 14,000 plus members, mostly electricians of one sort or another. If the NEC isn't hard to understand then how come there seems to be 14,000 different interpretations of it there? Me...well I still have trouble with the concept of electricity itself. I drew myself a mind picture a few years back of three elephants turning a windlass attached to a generator. 100 miles away are three elephants spinning around on a carousel powered by an electric motor. Somehow the mechanical power is being transferred from the first group to the second along a thin wire with no moving parts. What's up with that? You can talk all you want about excited electrons etc but, to someone like me who never approached being a molecular scientist, you might as well be describing how the transporter works on the Enterprise. Itââ¬â¢s all just magic and the NEC is a convoluted sorcererââ¬â¢s manual on how to safely handle the dragon. BTWâ⬦other things I have trouble grasping fullyâ⬦ Infinityâ⬦how can space never end and if it didâ⬦whatââ¬â¢s beyond that? The Big Bang theoryâ⬦ actually I have less trouble understanding how the whole universe came from something the size of a football than I do with the questionâ⬦â⬠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by swarga Kurt As requested in English. The 2002 NEC Says it is OK to install 15 amp outlets on a 20 bathroom circuit. []Wow[], Having Doug say I did a good job is like having your mentor compliment you.[:-bonc01][:-bouncy][:-bonc01][:-bouncy][:-bonc01][:-bouncy][:-bonc01][:-bouncy] To bad he doesn't like me bitching about how hard it is to understand[:-banghead]. You would think he helped write it or something.[:-bulb] Oh, That's right he did.[:-censored] Thanks Scott; you're a champ. I'll leave interpretations up to those inclined to interpret. Richard..... Just remember, infinity is a long way off, & you can't get there from here. It doesn't matter anyway, because if current theories are correct, you're there right now. And there, and there, and there, and there.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonTx Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Richard, It sounds like you've been listening to Art Bell too long....[:-sick] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Thank you for the education, especially Scott & Doug. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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