John Kogel Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 This old Harmony had a custom maple neck built for it. The neck is good and straight but the dovetail joint is all broken up. A earlier attempt to hold the neck back was a bolt thru the heel. This resulted in a broken heel, probably because of a poor fit at the joint. [] I've glued the heel and now plan to build a new dovetail with Bondo, shape it to fit perfectly and glue it all back up with carpenter's glue. Is this a reasonable approach or should I be gluing small pieces of maple where the dovetail is broken? I was able to peel the fingerboard off and knock the neck loose by steaming the glue joints. That is why I want to stick with white glue, so that the guitar can always be repaired. Click to Enlarge 38.12 KB Click to Enlarge 32.9 KB Click to Enlarge 40.64 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Don't put Bondo on wood. For wood and architectural repairs, I'm a big fan of the Smith & Company products. www.smithandcompany.org That said, I wouldn't use fillers on a guitar. Cut back and rebuild. Back when I used to work with wood, I'd use animal glue for projects like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I'd use your basic technique, only with various epoxy's and fibers. Not sure which one's until I saw it. If it was a good guitar, that would be a shit repair. But, it's a Harmony. AFT except Bondo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghentjr Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 If it was me doing the fixing I would first give a shout out to Harmony and ask them. http://www.harmonyguitarsusa.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 If it was me doing the fixing I would first give a shout out to Harmony and ask them. http://www.harmonyguitarsusa.com Guitar was broken before they were born. I am leaning towards a wood-based bondo-type filler, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 In that case try Durhams. http://www.waterputty.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Not Durhams. This is not a water putty repair. Epoxy. Trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted November 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I found some good stuff, a two part epoxy wood filler. It will take glue better than Bondo, I agree. I think it might be a Kay, two notches up from a Harmony. Jim, animal glue, like when they were using horses for transportation? [] I imagine it would be a feedlot by-product nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Use an epoxy consolidator first, then mix the consolidator with wheat flour to form a paste to build back the missing sections. Machine as necessary. The flour / epoxy mix is as hard and stronger than hard maple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Meiland Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Smith & Co. makes epoxy fairing gel that will work great for that. If you want Bondo to stick to wood, you need to prime the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Flour is good. I still have a stash of Cabosil fiber; one can make a great paste with that stuff, and form up just about anything. Fair it out with micro balloons. The main thing is epoxy; there's lots of ways to use epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted November 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 So I could have mixed flour with Bondo epoxy , that I have in the shop, for no cost, instead of buying two little cans of P C Woody, for $25? [:-dunce] http://www.pcepoxy.com/our-products/woo ... -woody.php I imagine it's epoxy and sawdust. But it's going to be just the right mix. If I tried flour, I'd probably get the mix wrong, like last time I tried pancake batter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I think it might be a Kay, two notches up from a Harmony. Not really. Harmony, with just a couple exceptions, used solid wood for tops and sides. Not the best quality woods though, but it was one of the better brands that was mass produced for the department stores. Kay is usually laminated tops and sides, except for some of their arch top models. Every one of the dept. store brands needs a neck reset - from the day it was built. Most got thrown out from frustration with the action, so they are dwindling in numbers, resulting in some higher values if fully worked into playable condition. If you don't get the angles of the dovetail just right, it will end up being a wallhanger. I think it's important to replace the missing wood with wood and use hide glue. As one of my woodworking hobbies, I worked with a luthier for a couple weeks, have restored or rebuilt just over a half-dozen acoustic guitars and built 2 from scratch. I have access to some amazing tools, supplies and tonewoods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Go to a gun shop and purchase some fiberglass bedding mix and build back the taper. Back in the 70's I used to use that stuff to repair hundred year old broken gun stocks. You mix it, stain it to match and use a putty knife to form it before it sets up. Once it sets up you can machine it or hand form it using files, chisels, etc.. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Amaral Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Don't put Bondo on wood. For wood and architectural repairs, I'm a big fan of the Smith & Company products. www.smithandcompany.org That said, I wouldn't use fillers on a guitar. Cut back and rebuild. Back when I used to work with wood, I'd use animal glue for projects like this. Try to buy a new neck.. don't use bondo.. that's a tone-killer... looks pretty junky to this guitar-player... I had a Harmony Rocket (elec) circa 1967...not bad but not great either... Maybe peruse 'Stewart-Macdonald" website.. Google them.. Download Attachment: 1400721_752010431479004_1764219647_o.jpg 450.37 KB Shot taken a few weeks ago in an old house in Medfield, MA. A fund-raiser for the place. That is me at far-L with the current band I am in, 'The Fathoms' (Surf Rock band Boston). We are having a blast. Old Fender Deluxe (1967) with new Squier Jazzmaster (uber-thick flat-wound strings). The tone I'm getting is awesome.. Notice my 'stomp box' .. the old Tremolo-Reverb switch (only). I'm guitar #2 supporting my old friend Frankie (on old Jazzmaster/old deluxe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted November 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 This guitar has solid spruce top and solid mahogany back and sides, so it is back to being a Harmony, thanks Bill. I got Kay from what somebody posted on the 'net, same body and no markings on the headstock. Do people just make sh*t up for fun?? [] The tone will already be kind of dead, so I wonder if a quarter ounce of epoxy resin will kill it worse? But I have found some hard maple, so will compromise by fitting some wood to the dovetail and filling small gaps afterwards. Hey, Rob, any UTube links for the Fathoms? Is that a 7 foot ceiling? I would need earplugs. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Amaral Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 There are some videos.. .. most with other crews on the plane.. That gig was great... I was surprised that a lot of people came out... great nite.. We try to play quieter with energy ... 'if necessary'.. You can see Frankie in action in a lot of them... The music is mostly written by Frankie.. we also do covers of a lot of Ventures, Shadows, quirky ancient surf-teen bands (like the Surf Teens) ... And a fistful of rockabilly.. great guys... we don't take ourselves too seriously and the object is to have a good time playing music.. There are apparently fans of the band's music in other countries... one video shows a group in Germany covering Frank's stuff... kind of unreal.. another stop on the twilight zone.. Like today's inspection: 1802... sno-man steam, the entire gamut of stuff... eeesh.. Click to Enlarge 55.68 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hockstein Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I once attempted to rebuild a twelve string guitar that I bought in a flea market. I butchered it and threw it away. I envy people that have the ability and patience to work on guitar (and have play and sound decent). Good Luck with your repair. My son and I have some guitars and basses that we have acquired over the last few years. I found this one on the side of the road as it was being brought to the curb to be thrown away. It is a Japanese copy of a Fender Bass. There was a time when there were a bunch of companies selling knock-off Fender guitars. Does not play very well but is worth more than what I paid. Click to Enlarge 22.56 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 1802... sno-man steam, the entire gamut of stuff... eeesh.. Wow....haven't seen one of those in a while. It's cool you play. I used to have a kit and played with some buds, but progressive carpal tunnel from trade work has flattened my drumming career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted December 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 The old Harmony flat top sat on a shelf for 30 years with a broken neck, but is now back to life. I used a bit of maple and a bit of PC Woody epoxy. I rebuilt the dovetail and carefully sanded it down to a super tight fit. Even so, when I tapped it home with glue, it rotated a tiny bit. So I had to bring the bass side of the neck up a hair with epoxy filler. To find the high spots for sanding and feathering the epoxy, I rubbed it with a dirty old tri-square. To get the intonation right, I put two strings on it and played the 12th fret both ways before clamping the fingerboard down with glue. It could use cosmetic touchs where I glued cracks and such. The pickguard is tortoise shell that I got somewhere. I would describe the tone as clear and bright. Click to Enlarge 46.05 KB Click to Enlarge 27.65 KB Click to Enlarge 60.66 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 What has you convinced this is a Harmony? Did you find some other documentation for it? One of the most telling distinctions between manufacturers is the shape of the headstock. Most of us who play can usually identify a make the second we see the head, whether it's a Martin, Gibson, Ovation, or whatever. You might see a change in specific electric models but, almost never with acoustic guitars The head on yours doesn't match a single Harmony, or Kay for that matter, that I can find. Every Harmony I've found a picture of, has the same style head as the ones pictured in the ad you have posted. Edit; Google "Supro" acoustic guitars. Take a look at the heads on those. They're real close to the same shape, and from the same era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 He said the neck was custom made. Very nice save, John. Someday I'll take pics of some of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 He said the neck was custom made. Very nice save, John. Someday I'll take pics of some of mine. Ok. That splains it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Regardless, it's a nice piece of work carried through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Amaral Posted December 24, 2013 Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 I am lucky to still be able to play...... so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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