tim5055 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Well, as I deal with all the other issues you all have been so kind to help me with I found the next one... For those of you who are into bugs, here is my situation/question. The house is having it's 10th birthday this year and the pest control company who has the re-treatment/repair bond says it will need to be treated this year. A Google search and a couple of hours reading have informed me that this is not uncommon with the chemicals now being used. The company that holds the bond says their method of re-treatment is done all from the outside by trenching the perimeter of the house and treating it there. To keep them honest I got a second estimate and that company says their re-treatment is the same as a new treatment, drill all blocks in the foundation, drill all piers in the crawl and drill any flat concrete surfaces (garage, patios ect.). The costs are close with second company slightly higher in both the re-treatment fee and yearly inspections, but not so much so that it's a game changer. I feel most times you can get what you pay for. My gut feeling is that the second company's method is going to be a better way of doing it, but that is just my uninformed thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Both companies viewed the house before giving you a price? Which chemical is each planning to use? I ask because they have different strategies so that might mean they're using different chemicals. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim5055 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Both companies viewed the house before giving you a price? Which chemical is each planning to use? I ask because they have different strategies so that might mean they're using different chemicals. Marc Company 1 did not come out, but they did the original treatment and have been there. They use Termidor The second company did come out and view the property before they gave a price. They use Termidor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles46 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 There are two schools on the preventative pest treatment. One method is bait stations that "lure" the creatures to the stations, away from the home, and over time will eradicate the entire colony, or so they say. The second school is what most do on new construction and what is being proposed as a re-treatment for you. That is to treat the soil around the perimeter and that includes inside the block foundation. This process kills the pest upon contact but does not kill the colony. It just tells the advancing troops to find a new route. On my eight year old house that was treated during construction as yours was, the little pests found their way past the liquid treatment and fortunately showed themselves before things got to bad. So, in my opinion, if you are going liquid treatment, go the route that is like new. They could probably use the same holes as were originally used. They just use plugs to fill the holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim5055 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Both companies viewed the house before giving you a price? Which chemical is each planning to use? I ask because they have different strategies so that might mean they're using different chemicals. Marc I forgot to say, thanks for reading and answering. There are two schools on the preventative pest treatment. One method is bait stations that "lure" the creatures to the stations, away from the home, and over time will eradicate the entire colony, or so they say. The second school is what most do on new construction and what is being proposed as a re-treatment for you. That is to treat the soil around the perimeter and that includes inside the block foundation. This process kills the pest upon contact but does not kill the colony. It just tells the advancing troops to find a new route. On my eight year old house that was treated during construction as yours was, the little pests found their way past the liquid treatment and fortunately showed themselves before things got to bad. So, in my opinion, if you are going liquid treatment, go the route that is like new. They could probably use the same holes as were originally used. They just use plugs to fill the holes. Thanks! Well, this is house number five for us (I think): This is what we have experienced: Miami - New construction pre construction treated and as far as I can remember we never had a contract or re-treatment Annapolis, MD - Second owner of the house (7 years old), pre construction treatment and as far as I can remember we never had a contract or re-treatment. Atlanta - Second owner of the house (12 years old), pre construction treatment and Sentricon. Yearly contract with repair bond. Vienna, VA - Second owner of the house (12 years old), pre construction treatment and "bait sticks" (not Sentricon) around house. Had them swarm out of a window casing and the company came back and retreated that area of the house. Yearly contract with repair bond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I've never had much faith in bait traps and don't recommend it. It doesn't stop termites, it just a gamble that they'll find the bait first and then again that the termite guy will pass by, see the infested trap and do something about it before damage to the house begins. I think the bait method is cheaper. A little cheaper for the homeowner, a lot cheaper and more profitable for the contractor. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Termidor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Second the motion for Termidor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghentjr Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I still find some good old Chlordane when I go to garage sales. Nice to keep a little around for those hard to kill bugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim5055 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Termidor. Second the motion for Termidor. Well, the jury seems to be voting the same. Any feelings between the two different ways they want to do the work? If I use company 2 this will have to be done before the crawlspace encapsulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghentjr Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I would do the treatment before encapsulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Methods are probably climate specific. There's no trenching done here. Maybe relates to frost depth. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I still find some good old Chlordane when I go to garage sales. Nice to keep a little around for those hard to kill bugs. If you can find some Chlordane, you won't have to worry about retreating ever again. That stuff lasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Termidor. Second the motion for Termidor. Well, the jury seems to be voting the same. Any feelings between the two different ways they want to do the work? If I use company 2 this will have to be done before the crawlspace encapsulation. Doesn't anyone do rodding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'm not a fan of just treating to be safe or of Termite Bonds or contracts. If you do not have termites now and the home is in good shape and can be inspected fairly easy, I would roll the dice and not renew the termite bond with a retreatment. Compare the cost of the preventative treatment vs the cost if you find termites and need to treat, I bet they will be similar. Now with a sealed crawlspace, it might be a different issue and wise to have them pre-treat before it is sealed. I'm also a fan of spreading my business around to other folks. If this one company has had the termite contract for 10 years, then it is time to switch. My experience has showed that bug guys tend to become complacent when the have long term termite bonds like this. Changing pest control contractors could be beneficial to all concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdhutch Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 First and foremost, Termidor is the only product I would recommend for termite control. I hae been using it since 2000 and up to this point have never had to retreat a house on which we used this product. Second, many companies offer 5, 7, and 10 year "warranties". They do this for two reasons, one of which is on the advise of their lawyers to minimize liabilities. The second reason is to regenerate revenue from existing customers. They will usually price the 10 year "booster" treatment just low enough to keep competitors away. In some states, the treatment method proposed by your existing company does not constitute a complete or legal termite treatment. Others would define this type of treatment as a "defined" treatment while the treatment method proposed by the second company is defined as a "comprehensive" treatment. Check with your local Structural Pest Control Commission for what is authorized in your area. Second, there are many good companies in your area that offer a lifetime renewable warranty with their initial treatment, meaning that as long as you pay the annual renewal fees and the home is inspected each year, then a retreatment would only be required in the event of a reinfestation (at no cost to you). And lastly, as far as baiting systems are concerned, I only recommend or push these when the construction of the house is done in such a manner that it prevents us from getting the Termidor exactly where it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim5055 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Company #3 estimated today. A franchise of one of the big national companies. They quoted both liquid treatment with Termidor as well as Sentricon. Both prices were within $100 of each other, but was about $2,400 higher than the previous prices.... I'm not a fan of just treating to be safe or of Termite Bonds or contracts. If you do not have termites now and the home is in good shape and can be inspected fairly easy, I would roll the dice and not renew the termite bond with a retreatment. Compare the cost of the preventative treatment vs the cost if you find termites and need to treat, I bet they will be similar. Now with a sealed crawlspace, it might be a different issue and wise to have them pre-treat before it is sealed. I'm also a fan of spreading my business around to other folks. If this one company has had the termite contract for 10 years, then it is time to switch. My experience has showed that bug guys tend to become complacent when the have long term termite bonds like this. Changing pest control contractors could be beneficial to all concerned. From what I have seen in this (and the Northern Virginia) real estate market is that without a current termite contract/bond you loose a percentage of your prospective buyers. The thoughts of doing something before I seal the crawl is a major factor in moving this up to the top of the project list. First and foremost, Termidor is the only product I would recommend for termite control. I hae been using it since 2000 and up to this point have never had to retreat a house on which we used this product. Second, many companies offer 5, 7, and 10 year "warranties". They do this for two reasons, one of which is on the advise of their lawyers to minimize liabilities. The second reason is to regenerate revenue from existing customers. They will usually price the 10 year "booster" treatment just low enough to keep competitors away. In some states, the treatment method proposed by your existing company does not constitute a complete or legal termite treatment. Others would define this type of treatment as a "defined" treatment while the treatment method proposed by the second company is defined as a "comprehensive" treatment. Check with your local Structural Pest Control Commission for what is authorized in your area. Second, there are many good companies in your area that offer a lifetime renewable warranty with their initial treatment, meaning that as long as you pay the annual renewal fees and the home is inspected each year, then a retreatment would only be required in the event of a reinfestation (at no cost to you). And lastly, as far as baiting systems are concerned, I only recommend or push these when the construction of the house is done in such a manner that it prevents us from getting the Termidor exactly where it should be. All my research agrees with you as to Termidor. Thanks for the background on the bug industry. I'm sticking with companies that offer a lifetime renewable warranty and include not only a re-treatment clause, but also a repair bond. I just don't understand my current company just doing a perimeter trench rather than a full treatment. I have another local company coming by tomorrow to quote liquid and Sentricon. So far company #2 is wining with a full treatment with Termidor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Sometimes you have to see the house before you know the particulars. Occasionally in my report I will recommend that the client hire a contractor to come see the house and advise them on some work that needs to be done. The contractor comes to the house with the understanding that he won't get the work. He's paid just to look at the house, lend his expertise and to advise the client, in much the same way that a home inspector might do so. That way, he's impartial. The sales pitch is out of the way and he's more likely to tell you what you need to know and exactly the way it is. This might be a good way for you to gain the knowledge you need to make an informed decision on which contractor is hire for the actual work. Just an idea. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseason Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 If the block in the foundation is not capped then you can't treat it as the chemicals will rise up out of the top of the block wall and you will inhale them. The bate systems are best used to monitor large or ongoing infestations. Why treat the house if you don't need to? Have the treatment company come to the site and follow them during the inspection so that they can show you any new evidence of termites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim5055 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Thanks for every ones input. Company #2 is my choice. While they are a little more expensive, I feel they are putting forth more effort justifying the added expense. As recommended by Roger, I did research SC regulations and the service my existing company wants to do does not meet state requirements. The bait Sentricon system is just too much money (both for installation & yearly fee) for benefit I may receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I have never liked the bait system. It is like termite cocaine! As long as you are feeding them and checking the bait they work fairly well. Stop feeding them and they get hungry and find your home! Bait stations are great business for pest control contractors as they must be serviced on a regular schedule and that service is not free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I've had great experiences with the bait systems (of course Oregon termites are probably a lot easier to eradicate that termites in the south). It's just that Termidor has made bait systems obsolete. It achieves the same thing, but it's much more effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 That's right. Bait gets rid of them in a couple years, Termidor in one season without the ongoing contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Kienitz Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I've never grasped the concept of the bait system ... The stations are separated by some distance ... 8 , 10, 15, 20 feet ... whatever. When the termites come charging up to the home and they are 'between' the bait stations ... do they stop and look left/right and muse over which bait station to visit or do they just proceed and take the straight-a-head shortcut to the house and start chomping away? Actually ... I do 'understand' the bait station concept, but it is a cash cow for the companies that use it and it has lost it's luster here in the Lone Star State. I work with several long-term (might I even say 'old-timers') who have been working bugs for over 25 years and they never bought into the 'bait' system as they felt it was just a ripoff for their customers and the overall benefits from same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I know a couple of the guys @ Dow Elanco/Agroscience that were involved in the development of Sentricon; it was (maybe) the first successful shot in the genetic modifiers. Being Dow, there was the corporate imperative of lassoing customers into a residual/annuity relationship; customers out there being free of corporate intrusion and long term contracts isn't part of the philosophy of modern agriscience. And, since there's untold millions involved in the development of Sentricon, it's got to be recovered somehow. I think Dow knows they're playing from behind, but are stuck in the hole they dug for themselves. Baiting systems work, but there's no good argument for them anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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