Erby Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Anybody ever seen it done that way. No visible flashing where the brick wall meets the shingle roof but builder swears they've installed through wall flashing between wall and roof, then step flashing under the shingles, then put the brick on over all of that. Click to Enlarge 63.96 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 So, he's saying the brick is the counterflashing? What's the brick bearing on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Nothing. That will make it much easier to remove in 20 years when the cover is shot an the new one needs to be tied into the flashing. The builder is a putz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 masonry bearing on wood frame raises some questions of its own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI in AR Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I've seen more cases like this in the last 15 years or so than I care to think about where a one piece flashing was installed before the brick went on. (I'm not sure what good step flashing could possibly do if installed as described.) Almost invariably, there is no kickout at the bottom to divert water from behind the brick veneer. The roof deck is preserved, but the wall framing gets destroyed below the gutter line on the main floor. Without any kickout flashing, that's where the water drains. And when there is a kickout flashing, the masons damn near always defeat the purpose of it by packing the joint full of mortar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 The builder is a putz. Yep. I've never seen something that stupid. Brick bearing on the damn framing....(?). Brick as counterflashing?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Best I can come up is below from the Brick Industry Association. He's got two elements right. There's brick and there are shingles. I couldn't get into the knee wall attic area to see if the rafters were tripled. The other stuff, that should be visible, isn't. =============== There are several locations where the brick meets the roof shingles. There is no visible step or counter or through wall flashing where the brick meets the shingles of the roof. There are no weep holes at the base of the brick. The junction between the shingles and the brick is covered with mortar. The seller/builder says that "through wall flashing" was installed, then step flashing installed with the shingles and then the brick was applied. Through wall flashing is supposed to go "through" the wall and be visible on the outside, with weep holes above the counter flashing over the step flashing. See diagram from the Brick Industry Association regarding this type of junction between brick and roof. (Picture 2) I couldn't get into the attic section under any of these areas to see what framing was done to support the brick but tripled rafters are the norm. In addition, there is no kickout flashing at the bottom of the roof slope to force water into the gutters. (Picture 3) Water that doesn't get "kicked" into the gutter runs down the wall and can penetrate behind the brick. Question 1: Where does the water go that gets behind the brick in the form of vapor. I don't see a way for it to get out of the wall. Question 2: When it comes time to replace the shingles, and that time will come, how is your roofer going to get the shingles out from under the brick and new shingles and step flashing UNDER the brick? This is a problem with no easy solution. Consult a brick mason and roofer and follow their advice. Be aware it might be costly. Picture 2 Click to Enlarge 46.92 KB Picture 3 Click to Enlarge 33.27 KB ============================ Guess we'll see how loud they scream. The buyer is a mechanical engineer with a good handle of knowledge. I won't go into how the deck is attached to the brick veneer with tapcons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I've seen that several times at dormer walls. Brick sits directly upon the shingles and is supported by the wood framing, exactly as Erby's builder described. I always write it up, of course. Click to Enlarge 54.99 KB Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben H Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I've seen more cases like this in the last 15 years or so than I care to think about where a one piece flashing was installed before the brick went on. (I'm not sure what good step flashing could possibly do if installed as described.) Almost invariably, there is no kickout at the bottom to divert water from behind the brick veneer. The roof deck is preserved, but the wall framing gets destroyed below the gutter line on the main floor. Without any kickout flashing, that's where the water drains. And when there is a kickout flashing, the masons damn near always defeat the purpose of it by packing the joint full of mortar. I've never seen a kickout installed. Not one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 So, he's saying the brick is the counterflashing? What's the brick bearing on? When I have seen this done (which is not much around here, because brick over frame is typically only used on a front wall) the brick was bearing on a steel beam. I cannot imagine that proper flashing is present. What is the stuff at the junction of the roof and wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Why, it's mortar, of course. What the heck else would you use at such an intersection of roof shingles to brick. Well, besides proper counter flashing of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Why, it's mortar, of course. What the heck else would you use at such an intersection of roof shingles to brick. Well, besides proper counter flashing of course. I thought so. So the builder thinks its necessary to mortar the shingles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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