dtontarski Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Question: Should my Ideal 61-059 remotely trip a GFCI receptacle outlet upstream from an ungrounded standard receptacle outlet? There were a bunch of ungrounded 3-slotted wall outlets downstream from a GFCI receptacle outlet supposedly protected circuit at my inspection yesterday. (these were labeled as ungrounded & GFCI protected) NOTE: I was able to cut the power to the ungrounded wall outlets by pushing the test button....I just want to ensure that I accurately describe these as GFCI protected or not. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brric Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Not if there is no equipment grounding conductor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtontarski Posted July 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 So as I interpret your reply.....the ungrounded wall outlets are GFCI protected if the GFCI RO cuts power to them....Thanks....I know I've read about this before.....just making sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 The way I understand it is that the receptacles downstream from the GFCI have some protection for faults between neutral and hot. But they still have no ground, so the remote tester won't trip the breaker in the GFCI. The remote tester shorts hot to the ground pin through a resistor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 No. The tester shunts current to ground to create the disparity between the current carrying conductor and the grounded conductor. The GFCI test button shunts current from the CCC to the GC through a resistor. If the GFCI trips with the test button and the downstream receptacles go dead, all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 The way I understand it is that the receptacles downstream from the GFCI have some protection for faults between neutral and hot. I don't think so. A GFCI is for ground faults only. But they still have no ground, so the remote tester won't trip the breaker in the GFCI. The remote tester shorts hot to the ground pin through a resistor. Makes sense. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 The tester shunts current to ground to create the disparity between the current carrying conductor and the grounded conductor. Agreed. The GFCI test button shunts current from the CCC to the GC through a resistor. If the GFCI trips with the test button and the downstream receptacles go dead, all is well. Ungrounded current carrying conductor only, although the 'test button' circuitry within the GFCI device might be a little different than the HI's tester and trip when either the grounded CCC or the ungrounded CCC lose current to the EGC. That's probably what you meant anyway. Just a clarification. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Davenport Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Just a FYI - The only approved method of testing GFCI devices is the use of the test button on the device. The manufactures and UL only rate /test GFCI devices using the test button,thus they only recognize the use of the test button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Petey Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Just a FYI - The only approved method of testing GFCI devices is the use of the test button on the device. The manufactures and UL only rate /test GFCI devices using the test button,thus they only recognize the use of the test button. Exactly!Testers are nice, but not to be relied upon for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Petey Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 The way I understand it is that the receptacles downstream from the GFCI have some protection for faults between neutral and hot. Not exactly. GFIs do not look for bolted faults, such as between hot and neutral. They looks for a difference in current between hot and neutral. You can still have a "ground" fault even if no grounding conductor is present in the box. But they still have no ground, so the remote tester won't trip the breaker in the GFCI. The remote tester shorts hot to the ground pin through a resistor. True, but it is not a good idea to call the trip mechanism in a GFI a "breaker". This is a definite misnomer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Question: Should my Ideal 61-059 remotely trip a GFCI receptacle outlet upstream from an ungrounded standard receptacle outlet? There were a bunch of ungrounded 3-slotted wall outlets downstream from a GFCI receptacle outlet supposedly protected circuit at my inspection yesterday. (these were labeled as ungrounded & GFCI protected) NOTE: I was able to cut the power to the ungrounded wall outlets by pushing the test button....I just want to ensure that I accurately describe these as GFCI protected or not. Thanks in advance! In the case you described, tripping the circuit by using the button on the GFI receptacle then checking down stream to see which other receptacles lost power is the correct way (on un-grounded circuits) to determine if the downstream receptacles are GFI protected. I think you did it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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