kurt Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I don't need much.... all I've seen are the ones that have all the bloat so I would love a look at something that is scaled right back and works for you. What about a few screenshots or a screencast Here's a couple screen shots. It's kind of sloppy because I'm always fiddling around with comment buttons. Every category page is essentially the same. I can see everything, or just that category. Click to Enlarge 806.25?KB Click to Enlarge 354.9 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlparham Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 HomeGauge is the only system that even starts to make sense to me. It's amazing. It's also software bloat/creep, i.e., piles of stuff that don't seem to really matter in this biz. That said, why does anyone want or need more than a .pdf? Sure it has bloat creep. Inspector's keep asking for more and more features. However the creep is not intrusive. If you want to use stuff you can; it's not in your face. It does not slow anything down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I don't need much.... all I've seen are the ones that have all the bloat so I would love a look at something that is scaled right back and works for you. What about a few screenshots or a screencast Here's a couple screen shots. It's kind of sloppy because I'm always fiddling around with comment buttons. Every category page is essentially the same. I can see everything, or just that category. You are a legend, thank you very much. Originally I was going to put together a mockup where you would do most of the data capture like this on a tablet app. Listening to the feedback however about having to carry something like a tablet around and how hard it would be to do data entry or etc I'm thinking that this won't suit many people. So rather than that what about a hybrid solution that is a combination of mobile phone app & web. The mobile phone app could have the list of inspections assigned to you and could be a simple data capture app where you select a space and take photos for that space. For notes it could have a speech to text or audio recording. All of this would be synced up into a web app. Then back at the office you could login to the web app and you would have an interface similar to what Kurt has kindly provided. It would have all the photos linked to the spaces you selected and any details that you captured. You would be able to drag and drop images, select boiler plate comments etc. and complete the report. This hybrid approach would mean you carry around with you only what you already have and allows you to focus on capturing the images and key notes on site. The simple interface on the web with everything already synced up ready to go should make completing the report pretty quick and easy. Thoughts? The latest iphones have an 8 megapixel camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I originally built this so I could use an iPad. I found that I really didn't like carrying around an $800 dollar note pad that got dirty and broken. I tried it on the phone, and I didn't like it at all. I can't stick my phone into a sump pump to photograph drain tile and they don't work at all in a crawlspace.....the flash is lousy. I like water/impact resistant cameras that fit in the palm of my hand. OTOH, there are others that are absolutely thrilled to carry a camera and an iPad and insist it works fabulously for everything. I don't know how, but they will insist it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Sure it has bloat creep. Inspector's keep asking for more and more features. However the creep is not intrusive. If you want to use stuff you can; it's not in your face. It does not slow anything down. Like I said, it's the only one that makes any sense to me. I built mine years before HG even showed up in the market. Mine's like an app, their's is like.....a big feature laden thing that I'm glad I don't have to dink around with. I have to wonder how long they'll hang on. Resqman's correctly pointed out that even if they achieved total penetration and controlled the market for HI report systems, which they won't ever even come close to, it's still this little dinky nothing market. With big guns like BPG moving in and other corporate entities turning this little thing we do into an enterprise, there'll be more and more software options that will further confuse the situation. I wonder if consumers will start to catch on, figure it out, and demand reports that are coherent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 ...OTOH, there are others that are absolutely thrilled to carry a camera and an iPad and insist it works fabulously for everything. I don't know how, but they will insist it does. Yeah, the two Canon SX700HS pocket cameras I use now for inspecting can WiFi a photo to a pad and my phone has a hotspot function to provide the wireless net. I wonder if I had a pad whether I could tie the camera to the pad (which would sit on the kitchen countertop) while I inspect with the camera. Marc PS, I haven't seen a 5-pager this fast since our good friend Ferry paid a visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I wonder if I had a pad whether I could tie the camera to the pad (which would sit on the kitchen countertop) while I inspect with the camera. Marc We figured something like that out with a phone hotspot, but in the end, it was just more moving parts that didn't really add anything other than tech coolness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Oh, I forgot...... I've got another module for my system that I call the light table. I bulk import pics into it and can then sort and organize them by tapping each pic in the order I want them to appear. I can reorder them in various ways by holding down the Control key when I click in a box; clicking in the appropriate number moves the picture order. Then, I hit renumber and they all are numbered correctly. I can tab through pics to annotate them, resort them, categorize them 5 different ways. I output this to something I call the "comic book"; 3 pics per page with an annotation/description area for each picture. It's extremely effective on specific issue jobs or for pictorial summaries in my HOA work. I can have the output be in any form.....3 pics, 6, 11, whatever. Picture book reports are really cool. I can output with a comic book, a full report, just the comments, just the pics, just the SOP and description stuff, or any combination of the above. It's all scripted....hit a button, get output. It's not just an inspection report system. It's an image management system. I can store, archive, or otherwise keep hundreds of thousands of pictures all categorized and indexed to a client. No one's got this, not HomeGauge, not no one. I showed it to some photog's and they just about flipped. We showed it at the Filemaker convention last year....same response. It may be the coolest thing in my system. Click to Enlarge 1236.36?KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resqman Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Clue: both refer to a hidden data base. Where is it? It is the individual mind, which has unlimited storage space for free on the "cloud". The hidden data base in part of the data collection/report generation software. The inspector enters data in the collection system via phone, tablet, pc. The software stores the collected data. The user does not really care if it is an phone app, web app, or pc app. Its magic. Then the inspector enters the report generation software/app and requests a report to be generated. The app/software gets the collected data, shuffles it around, formats it, and generates a report. Likely the inspector will have to add a few comments of the day prior to actual generation. The database might live in the cloud if data entry is done on a portable device (phone, tablet) but would eventually have to be visible to the report generation device which is likely to be a PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 It's not just an inspection report system. It's an image management system. I can store, archive, or otherwise keep hundreds of thousands of pictures all categorized and indexed to a client. No one's got this, not HomeGauge, not no one. I showed it to some photog's and they just about flipped. We showed it at the Filemaker convention last year....same response. It may be the coolest thing in my system. It certainly looks pretty cool. - Do you just upload every single image you take or do you pick and choose from your application and then upload the rest (is that the "Load Pics" button?) - What resolution do you take your photos with - Do you do any scaling or resizing before uploading or do they go up full res? - Do you annotate your images and can you do that in your app? - What is the "DAR" button It sounds like the best option is for HI's to just have a camera and then have a very slick process back at the computer. What do other people think? You would pretty much just do the inspections with your camera(no iphone or tablet apps) and then use a web based system that is simple, fast to use and could produce a variety of reports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 It sounds like the best option is for HI's to just have a camera and then have a very slick process back at the computer. What do other people think? You would pretty much just do the inspections with your camera(no iphone or tablet apps) and then use a web based system that is simple, fast to use and could produce a variety of reports to generate the reports? I see you're beginning to home in. Take a look at my desk: Click to Enlarge 33.69 KB When I'm editing, the report doc is on the MacBook, photos on left monitor, boilerplate on right. The clipboard with my onsite notes is above the Mac. It's a physical way of assisting the manipulation of data. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Get the pics in the puter with an SD card. I take low rez and resize them even smaller in Preview. Rez is the least important aspect of any pic; take the right pic, pixel count is irrelevant. Open my system, hit load pics, select the folder, import in a batch. The Light Table is related to my Concerns page; that's the file where the filmstrip is derived from. IOW, it's in "both places" thru the magic of relational db's. Annotation is all done in the application; there's text fields tied to each pic. Print the report; print protocols are scripted for different reports. What I do next depends on what type of report I'm doing. Mark it up in Preview with arrows or whatever. The Light Table file can be saved for each customer, or all the pics deleted. Depending on the report type, I might not save it; I keep the pictures and load them again if necessary. If it's a comic book, I save it. If it's a standard report, I delete them. IOW, the Light Table sits in the middle of the entire system. It's the relational file from which all the pics are managed, dragged, annotated, or whatever. I can annotate in the Light Table for the comic book, or if it's a standard report, the pics are dragged to the comment in Concerns. DAR stands for "Delete All Records". It scrubs the file. The Light Table gets used for each report in different ways; it gets cleaned and used over and over. It ties to everything else with relational scripting. It's actually very simple; explaining it makes it sound complicated; using it is remarkably simple and fast. There are no wasted motions. Light Table fields are container fields. They hold video, any type of photo file, .pdf's, audio files, or whatever. I sometimes take a pic and "annotate" it verbally; I can click on the pic and it talks to me. I can play videos within the field; it's really cool and entirely unnecessary. Software folks see the Light Table and get a big smile on their face. DB types get a really big smile. I work with a cheap durable camera as my only notes. It suits me best. Having a web based application might be good for some, but it presents interesting problems with relational db's. Some files in the system are teeny; some are big (well, sorta big....maybe 200mb. They sync at different rates. You might have one file at one stage and another at another stage, the result being information that's scattered all over the place. I don't know why a small operation needs a web based app. It seems the only benefit accrues to developers trying to control the inspectors access to the software to insure continued payment. Everything slows down when the db has to continually access the web. For my small operation, it's better to have it all in my puter. Your last sentence basically nails it with the exception of the web based part. The fast, simple, and variety of reports part is exactly right. That's what I built. The market, though, is demanding bells, whistles, and all manner of crap. Expect the larger HI market to completely dismiss fast efficient software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 You are right that it isn't for everyone but some of the benefits of a web application over a desktop application are: - You don't need to install or upgrade anything - It runs on windows or mac or anything with a browser - You pay for what you use, when you use it - All your reports, templates, data etc is backed up and secure - You get improvements & upgrades immediately as they are released - Your data can be accessed from anywhere and any device - The system can integrate with other web systems If I was to go and build a desktop app then straight away I would have to choose either windows or mac. Then you have to worry about different versions of the operating system. gah. lots of nightmares. You don't link to the full resolution images from the report. When all the images are dropped into the report they aren't very big so they can be uploaded to the server at that same size. What type of internet connection do most people have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I've cable. Are you saying that a web-based app would require the user to uplink all of his boilerplate? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector57 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Internet access is NOT a certainty. At least portions of any system must be stand alone. Uploading later is fine but relying on internet service in the field is a no go for MANY areas. Even phone service can be spotty. In my opinion a web based app for home inspections is not dependable enough for me to rely on yet. I have two of almost everything, more if it is important. I carry four cameras plus my phone and batteries our the wazu . While my current system must be uploaded to get the report to the customer, I can actually write the report in the middle of a power outage with no internet connectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Internet access is NOT a certainty. At least portions of any system must be stand alone. Uploading later is fine but relying on internet service in the field is a no go for MANY areas. Even phone service can be spotty. In my opinion a web based app for home inspections is not dependable enough for me to rely on yet. I have two of almost everything, more if it is important. I carry four cameras plus my phone and batteries our the wazu . While my current system must be uploaded to get the report to the customer, I can actually write the report in the middle of a power outage with no internet connectivity. I wasn't suggesting that it would be a web app to be used in the field. This was the idea that I was looking for feedback on. Could it work for you? It sounds like the best option is for HI's to just have a camera in the field and then have a very slick process back at the computer. What do other people think? You would pretty much just do the inspections with your camera(no iphone or tablet apps) and then use a web based system(back at your home or office) that is simple, fast to use(with a desktop computer) and could produce a variety of reports? How reliable is your internet connectivity from your home or office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I've cable. Are you saying that a web-based app would require the user to uplink all of his boilerplate? Marc There could be some boilerplate that could come standard but the boilerplate comments would be created and updated by you. These would be reusable from one inspection to the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted June 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 I've put together a clickable mockup that I'd love some feedback on.... You can see it here. Please give the images a chance to load. There is plenty I haven't mocked up but this would be the core of the application. If it doesn't make sense just ask which bits don't make sense and I will explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Good start. I'd prefer replacing 'Concerns' label with 'Findings' label because the body of my report is basically a series of findings, grouped by category and separated by category headings and subheadings. Preliminary info (client name, date, etc) Photos: sizing, editing and insert photo into each finding. Boilerplate insertion, typing in custom text and re-editing each finding as needed. Insert new findings as needed. Rearrange/group order of findings to fall into certain categories and whatever order you wish within each category Insert headings/subheadings in appropriate locations to identify the categories Report One vital observation: The headings and subheadings go in last, not at the beginning because you don't know the house until you finish editing the findings and until you know the house, you don't know the optimum headings and optimum order of headings. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 It looks like my system. Pretty close. Which is a very basic DB layout. Should work. What's the report look like? Marc, what do you mean by the headings and categories and putting them in order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 It looks like my system. Pretty close. Which is a very basic DB layout. Should work. What's the report look like? Marc, what do you mean by the headings and categories and putting them in order? A category is a group of similar findings. They're preceded by either a heading or a subheading. Order: I might put the Structural category first in a particular report unless that house has no structural issues then I might choose Electrical instead or whatever category has the most issues. Choice of headings and their order often changes with the particular house. Last house I did had an Internal Air Quality category because it had several vital CO concerns (findings). Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 So, essentially a sort order. Right? Sorting is something I consider and reconsider constantly. I'm not so sure I want to prioritize "findings" in the report, because honestly, I'm not always sure if something is a first, second, or third order concern until I've had the time to sit and think for a few days. Priorities are something determined by examining the building and then bouncing all that off the clients desires, expectations, budget, and all the other stuff that fits into the equation. Someone might need new plumbing desperately, but it would be stupid to prioritize it as a first order problem if they were planning to tear out the kitchen and bathrooms in a year when replacing plumbing would be much simpler and fit into a logistical program easily. Also, talk to any contractor and they'll have entirely different priorities that may or may not coincide with my ideas. Lots of opportunities for stupid stuff to happen. Finding defects is usually easy. Prioritizing them to clients is complicated. Too complicated for me to want to get into it within the restrictions of a HI. Customers get a list of what's wrong. When and how it gets fixed is another job. That part is actually turning into another business for me. I'm rethinking my sorting methods now. I can sort concerns/findings several different ways, and I've been talking to customers about what might work best for them instead of imagining I know what's best. I built my whole system based on what customers told me they wanted/needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 You might be overthinking it a little. Solid aluminum wiring takes precedence over a broken GFCI in the electrical category. That's about all I mean. It's mostly a conceptual thing. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Oh. I break it into Major or Minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 While HomeGauge easily lets me change the order of component sections or individual items within the component sections (click the up button or down button) once I settled on the order I wanted, I've kept the order of components & items the same in my reports. More because it's about me writing the report and knowing where everything is on the screen than about prioritizing for the clients. Muscle memory tends to take over when you need to switch from one component section or item within the section, if it's always in the same place or order. Mainly because I learned from others experience here about the futility of trying to determine the clients priorities in relation to their wants, needs and budgets. The time it takes to write a report is a reflection on your effective use of tools and time, not on how good the report is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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