kurt Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Whether a report is or is not painful to read has nothing whatsoever to do with the program used to write it. That's quite a bit wrong. Jim is still working on pre-21st century ideas. If one imagines that beautifully crafted sentences lay at the heart of what makes a report painful or not is out of touch with most everything I'm attempting to convey. If one wants to perform gymnastics to make a program do something it's not designed to do, I suppose Jim's right, but why would one do this? Form and layout are powerful tools. Output form is a component of the report. What makes a report painful is often form. Long form narrative is good for some things, not so good for a lot of other things. Why wouldn't one choose the right tool for the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resqman Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I think that Scott's original question was, "where does it hurt?" His interest seems to be in providing solutions for those who are *not* happy. For sure, if you don't want / feel you need to change then I'm not trying to "sell" you guys anything. I'd be interested to hear what the younger guys coming into to the industry have to say about the current software on offer. Younger is a relative term. Most home inspectors come to the industry after having a previous career. The average home inspector does not get into the industry until age 45 or 55+. People new to the industry don't know what they don't know. People new to the industry are more likely to accept a new or different software package because they have no investment in the current offerings. One of the attractive parts of this industry is the relatively low entry cost of tools and training. Any software package that claims to be better for a lower cost will likely attract attention of the newcomers. We discuss the optimum report formatting frequently on this forum. Several are very outspoken on their view of the ideal report while others are more about tweaking the basic industry standard. Newcomers generally flounder around with a home made document processing system until they buy a package. Then they tweak the software to look like their word processing package. I am confused by Scotts dream. He knows absolutely nothing about the home inspection industry. His questionnaire demonstrates that. He has chosen to revolutionize an industry that has a very limited market with virtually no opportunity for growth. Of all the industries to choose to revolutionize, why Home Inspections? Sorry, he has sparked a good debate and the same five posters have quibbled back and forth. Mildly entertaining but I am baffled by Scotts goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I don't think Scott has made any claims about revolutionizing anything. I think he's a guy that understands what he's talking about relative to software solutions and stumbled onto something that's interesting to him. I spend some time with guy's like him...they're into software solutions. I'm interested in letting him run with it...there's nothing to lose, so why not? A problem we currently have is people that understand the HI biz on a few levels but don't know jack squat about effective ways to relay information and maybe even less about radical changes in media and how people read and comprehend new information. Form is important. All things being equal and an inspector delivering correct information, form, in most cases, has huge effect in how folks read and comprehend that information. The guy that helped me develop my system doesn't understand anything about home inspection, but he understands interface, data collection, reporting and form, and efficient ways to accomplish the job. He develops for Genentech now, but doesn't know anything about pharma or genetic/medical issues. He develops for Apple, but doesn't know how to build computers or phones. I'd let the boy go and maybe we learn something. I agree about the revenue part. There isn't a dime to be made in HI software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Kienitz Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I agree with Kurt M. An application is an application is an application. The gurus who know how to build applications do not need to know much (if anything) about the data being collected. Can be text, saved comments, images, videos, statistics, etc., etc.. Then the magic is how to best save that collected data and merge it into a cohesive presentation and present it to your client. HI's don't have a corner on being exclusive. We're just viewing, collecting and assembling data and presenting same to our clients. We each have our preferences as to how we were brought up and maybe even trained/educated to inspect and use an application that we are comfortable with. Changing that application from what one is 'used to using' is difficult. We, as humans, are typically reluctant to change. Just consider how you (today) manage the images you capture on your digital camera (Les and others can share about dropping off rolls of 35mm film for processing so they could get a few images in reports ... from that to what Les does today is a huge change) ... you have a set routine and are used to that routine. Now there is a new application that can actually streamline some of the steps of your image processing, yet you (and ME) are reluctant to change because you are comfortable in your skin. It simply data, images, comments ... how they are put together and presented (that is a repeat from above). And, as noted by others ... not a huge market for anyone to market an application to, but it certainly does intrigue me as I love testing and debugging such. Been doing that for a lot of years and it is interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I won't let it die...... I go iconoclastic about this largely (completely) due to the amazing research, findings, and general cultural shifting into how people read and absorb information nowadays. Google it up and read; there's stuff going on out there, and as an industry and profession, we aren't doing it. I take that back. There's a single smart thing in this gig and it's called Code Check. It encapsulates all of what I rant about into an object lesson. I suppose we can continue to refuse acknowledging cultural shifts because hardly anyone gives a shit about what we do except for a couple times in their lives when they're either buying or selling a house. OTOH, if any of us actually care about folks understanding all the stuff we talk about every day, it's a good thing to keep talking about report formats. If we care about making money, it's a good thing to talk about process, logistics, and tools for efficiency. If we could Code Check-ify our reportage on houses, we'd resemble something like a profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I use a lot of pics in my reports. I have used 3 different softwares and they generally follow the ASHI SOP. The categories exterior, roof, grounds, interior, heating, plumbing, etc. can usually be shifted around. My pics are never taken in the same order as the categories. So no matter what, I am scrolling up and down searching through pics. But John Dirks mentioned this once. If you inspected in the order of your software categories, the pics would be grouped in the right sequence. Maybe there is something there, follow your software prompts, go find the gas meter, now go do the roof, etc. dropping the pics in as you go. I find it slows me way down. We have a couple of young guys in our group of 200 plus inspectors. [] I like watching one guy input data into his phone one-handed with his thumb, just makes it look easy. I can't see the screen, much less pick the correct tab with my thumb. But he can write a report one-handed while he walks around the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 The market size is fine. If I had 1000 customers paying $30 a month it would be more than enough. My job is to understand new domains and then build solutions for them. So like the guys suggest I go into a completely new business' and spend time with the domain experts to find out what I need to know. For the last 10-15 years I've been building software and then trying to find a market for it. I've recently learnt about a this process where first I talk to people and understand their problems and validate solutions and reduce risk by getting people to invest in the idea before building it. That reduces the risk and makes sure that I spend my time building solutions that people really want. So even though it seems unlikely that there is anything worth me spending my time building its a good result because I have validated that without building something first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 John, When I first started using HomeGauge, I had the same problem, endless scrolling through the film strip to find the picture I wanted. Drove me nuts. (see photo) Click to Enlarge 46 KB Then I found that all the report sections and items were readily accessible while the pictures could only show so many on the screen at a time. Now, I open HomeGauge, load the pictures and start down the film strip one picture at a time. (Pictures are my notes). It's easy to click from one section to another and / or one item to another. By the time I get to the end of the film strip, I'm pretty much done writing the report. Lot's less frustrating if you let the pictures control the order of what you're inputting than to let the report order dictate endless scrolling to find the picture you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 My system is like what Erby describes, with a couple additional features that allow me to skip steps to minimize actions. Zero wasted motion. Scroll down pics, create comment either custom or from library, drag pic to comment, categorize and weight it (major, minor, FYI, whatever), do it again until report is done. The DB sorts it all out in the print protocol. It's quick. God bless the software gurus. They get this stuff better than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 John, When I first started using HomeGauge, I had the same problem, endless scrolling through the film strip to find the picture I wanted. Drove me nuts. (see photo) Click to Enlarge 46 KB Then I found that all the report sections and items were readily accessible while the pictures could only show so many on the screen at a time. Now, I open HomeGauge, load the pictures and start down the film strip one picture at a time. (Pictures are my notes). It's easy to click from one section to another and / or one item to another. By the time I get to the end of the film strip, I'm pretty much done writing the report. Lot's less frustrating if you let the pictures control the order of what you're inputting than to let the report order dictate endless scrolling to find the picture you want. OK I get that. My attitude needs to change. [] I am usually preparing for a walkthrough with my clients who come for 1 hour at the end. So I want to write up the defects first. If I had all my defects at the top of the film strip, great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I don't use the report for the client briefing, if they aren't already with me and see it first hand. I just open the pictures folder in Windows Explorer and scroll through the photos showing them the issues. Defect writing comes when I'm adding the photos to the report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Even though it has been discontinued something like Google Glass or smart glasses could be an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Even though it has been discontinued something like Google Glass or smart glasses could be an improvement. You mean as sort of a video camera? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Even though it has been discontinued something like Google Glass or smart glasses could be an improvement. You mean as sort of a video camera? Marc You can take photos & record video without needing to carry things around. You can build programs on them in a similar way to a smart phone. Just an idea, maybe not a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Google glass might work, but only minimally in my approach. Sometimes the best shot is me holding the camera out at arms length, or sticking it into a drain tile, or jamming it into a furnace to get a serial #, etc., etc. POV isn't necessarily the best shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Even though it has been discontinued something like Google Glass or smart glasses could be an improvement. You mean as sort of a video camera? Marc You can take photos & record video without needing to carry things around. You can build programs on them in a similar way to a smart phone. Just an idea, maybe not a good one It is not bad. We could send videos to you for editing. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I don't use the report for the client briefing, if they aren't already with me and see it first hand. I just open the pictures folder in Windows Explorer and scroll through the photos showing them the issues. Defect writing comes when I'm adding the photos to the report. Yep, I like to get the defects done first, because that involves a bit of creative writing. And the rest is fluff. I use Horizon at the moment and it is sluggish at switching pages. Once you open a window, you want to add all the pics, because then you hit Save and watch the little wheel spin for 20 or 30 seconds. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb1978 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Let's say you could wave a magic wand and have professionally edited inspection videos made from your the videos you are taking now with your cheap cameras. What would that be worth to you and is that something that others would be interested in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well, if you're happy watching that little wheel spin, who is to say it's wrong. Enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Let's say you could wave a magic wand and have professionally edited inspection videos made from your the videos you are taking now with your cheap cameras. What would that be worth to you and is that something that others would be interested in? It would have no value to me. Videos in an HI report would be a vivid testimonial of the inability of the inspector to write simple sentences. If I had a magic wand, I'd ask for a 4' wide touch screen on the wall (like Law/Order SVU, Hawaii 5-0, etc) filled with rectangular boxes of texts, relevant boilerplate, headings/subheadings or photos. I create the report by dragging the boxes in the order I want, then print it. Add a keyboard so I can customize text. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I agree with Marc. Proliferating videos would be wretched. Most inspectors can't form a sentence with a noun and verb; HI's putting together a tightly executed educational video is impossible to imagine. I can imagine a lot of situations where a stand alone educational video would be extremely helpful, but the idea of HI's making them makes me shudder. Everyone thinks they can write because a computer program punches in sentences for them. Think what would ensue if there was a program that did the same thing with video clips. Most folks just need a list of what's wrong with the items placed in context. Time is short, emotions are high, lots of stakeholders in the process (realtors, banks, lawyers, family), and lousy videos would complicate it. Making effective videos is hard; I can't think a software program could do it. It requires skill in scripting, storyboarding, knowledge of the craft, production capability.....lots of stuff. People go to school to learn this stuff. I also believe that whoever comes out with something like that would find a receptive audience in the general HI population. Which is the problem we have now.....software vendors tittilating HI's with sparkly bells and whistles report programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I saw thousands of swarming ants in an attic the other day, and the pictures I took didn't do the magnitude of the problem justice. I took a video with my cell phone, and texted the video to my client. Would the video look good in the report? Maybe, but my client at least knew the concern via text. Can't think of much else that would warrant a video, though. Like Marc said, written words and pict or two most always often suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlparham Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 John, When I first started using HomeGauge, I had the same problem, endless scrolling through the film strip to find the picture I wanted. Drove me nuts. (see photo) Click to Enlarge 46 KB Then I found that all the report sections and items were readily accessible while the pictures could only show so many on the screen at a time. Now, I open HomeGauge, load the pictures and start down the film strip one picture at a time. (Pictures are my notes). It's easy to click from one section to another and / or one item to another. By the time I get to the end of the film strip, I'm pretty much done writing the report. Lot's less frustrating if you let the pictures control the order of what you're inputting than to let the report order dictate endless scrolling to find the picture you want. In HomeGauge I do my comments first then load the pictures. It's much easier to click to the comment when scrolling through the pictures than scrolling for pictures from the comment. If you use a phone or tablet for the inspection the pictures are linked to the comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'm not a big fan of videos in my report, but there are times where the client can't be there that video with sound comes in real handy. Examples of a couple of the times I've included video in my HomeGauge reports that really helped the buyer understand the problems, along with reducing seller arguments about conditions. Malfunctioning Radon Mitigation system: Water Heater Sediment Build Up: Water Leak Rots Joist: Termites: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yeah, Morgan, if you have notes. My photographs are my notes. I don't include all of them in the report, especially those with my funky hand signals or crazy angles telling me why I took the picture, but that's why I scroll the pictures to input my comments and photos at the same time. I do it like Kurt. Input comments as I go down the film strip, adding the photo the the comment, rating it and then moving on to the next photo. I also like the way I can set it to remove pictures, that have been put into the report, from the film strip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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