Mike Lamb Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 This condo has smart meters. The main disconnect for each service is usually right next to the meter. I don't see any. There was no main disconnect at the subpanel inside the condo unit. How does the occupant shut down the main? Click to Enlarge 30.3 KB Click to Enlarge 32.8 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thats a good question,Can you follow the service coming out of each meter to see if theres disconnects someplace in the basement?[:-bigeyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Nope. Limited access to the bldg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I see those where there is an array of main disconnects in a central closet. That's probably it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I had an office condo a few weeks ago. All units had smart meters on a wall and then all of the main disconnect breakers were in a mechanical room closet?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 The type of meter really makes no differance,There should be a disconnect within 10' of the meter bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 The type of meter really makes no differance,There should be a disconnect within 10' of the meter bank. Where does the 10' max come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Thats been code around here since the beginning of time as maximum distance between meter base and panel based on unfused wire length. Ill check and see if I can find anything in the nec about a max distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Good luck finding that. AFAIK, it's a performance standard with the AHJ making the final call. The local muni inspectors usually say 6 feet, but I've known new-construction SECs to cross the ceiling over a two car garage and still pass their inspection. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 That's why I'm asking. I can't find any specific distance - just "nearest the point of entrance". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 That's why I'm asking. I can't find any specific distance - just "nearest the point of entrance". I've never seen anything other than just that. Maybe plummen can enlighten us. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 ...the distance he refers to I've known only as the undefined spec for distance w/o overcurrent protection of SEC. In our area you cannot get a number from the utility. Unless it is "back to back" from meter to main panel there generally is a breaker in the meter box or right next to it for the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummen Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Im going to call dow to the chief electrical inspector tomorrow and ask if he knows where our 10' rule originated,if it was based on anything in the Nec or not. Everybody Ive asked in the last few days says the same thing as me,Its just always been that way so everybody figures it has to have originated someplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim5055 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 My current house in SC has the meter base (with smart meter) on the south wall of the house. No disconnect that I know of without pulling the meter. The cables exit the rear of the meter base, through the wall into the crawl space (this side of the house the crawl is 10' high) traverses the entire house through he crawl then up an interior wall on the north side of the house where the two panels are located. Each panel has a dedicated feed from the meter and I'm guessing they are 75-80 feet long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 My current house in SC has the meter base (with smart meter) on the south wall of the house. No disconnect that I know of without pulling the meter. The cables exit the rear of the meter base, through the wall into the crawl space (this side of the house the crawl is 10' high) traverses the entire house through he crawl then up an interior wall on the north side of the house where the two panels are located. Each panel has a dedicated feed from the meter and I'm guessing they are 75-80 feet long. That would constitute two major violations here: the length of the unfused feeders and the lack of a gutter. The gutter is an enclosure between the meter box and the two main panels. It splits the SECs into two feeders. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 My current house in SC has the meter base (with smart meter) on the south wall of the house. No disconnect that I know of without pulling the meter. The cables exit the rear of the meter base, through the wall into the crawl space (this side of the house the crawl is 10' high) traverses the entire house through he crawl then up an interior wall on the north side of the house where the two panels are located. Each panel has a dedicated feed from the meter and I'm guessing they are 75-80 feet long. That would constitute two major violations here: the length of the unfused feeders and the lack of a gutter. The gutter is an enclosure between the meter box and the two main panels. It splits the SECs into two feeders. Marc Not allowed in Canada either. Shortest distance possible is the rule. If the unfused feeders need to go any distance through a crawlspace they are often encased in concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Another condo with smart meters and no main disconnect anywhere. There was a main disconnect to shut down the power for the entire building. I doubt that counts. Nobody else is seeing this during their inspections? Click to Enlarge 31.2 KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 See it all the time. In fact, my apartment building is like that; 7 panels, no disconnects, just a main building disconnect. There's thousands of them like this in Chicago. Any work happens in the building, the City makes them upgrade. Nothing happening, they cruise along like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 That's why I'm asking. I can't find any specific distance - just "nearest the point of entrance". Bill, I think the specific distance is a utility company requirement. I thought PECO used 15 feet, but I have never confirmed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 See it all the time. In fact, my apartment building is like that; 7 panels, no disconnects, just a main building disconnect. There's thousands of them like this in Chicago. Any work happens in the building, the City makes them upgrade. Nothing happening, they cruise along like this. Jim K corrected me recently on main breaker requirements for sub-panels: The requirement is the same as for the main panel. If there are 6 or fewer branch circuit breakers, there's no need for a main breaker on a sub. I guess he's going to correct me again shortly. I'm getting rusty. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 That's right, but my building has 8 circuit Bulldog panels. I see older condo buildings all the time that have panels or subpanels lacking main breakers with >6 overcurrent devices. I thought the restriction was on hand movement, not the # of breakers. National sez something about hand movement. Chicago has it's own code, which honestly, I can barely keep track of and it doesn't matter anyway...inspectors are in the Brotherhood and it's all in family. Code is whatever some dweeb says it is, and sometimes not. I make a comment in my reports about lack of main disconnects, but nothing comes of it and I never expect anything to come of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Agree. It's about how many motions of the fireman's hand needed to remove all power. It's outdated anyway. Firemen do it with one motion of both hands now...they yank the meter. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 That's right. That's why I don't care about # of devices. Just more stuff to clog up youngsters heads. I talk about it mainly so when some HI points it out in the future I can say I told them first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 If someone wants to do some work in the panel like adding a branch circuit or whatever, a main breaker would be nice even if there are less than 6 throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 I agree. There's just a lot of panels out there that don't have main disconnects. I don't worry about it too much. I just put it in the report and understand it's relegated to irrelevance by everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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