Mark P Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I have always thought that a bedroom was required to have a heat source inside the room. However, in researching this I cannot find anything to support this assumption. It seems that the heater just has to be able to heat all habitable areas to 68?F regardless how it is distributed. The following is taken from the 2006 IRC R303.8 Required heating. When the winter design temperature in Table R301.2(1) is below 60?F (16?C), every dwelling unit shall be provided with heating facilities capable of maintaining a minimum room temperature of 68?F (20?C) at a point 3 feet (914mm)above the floor and 2 feet (610mm) from exterior walls in all habitable rooms at the design temperature. The installation of one or more portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Jones Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 In reading that, I don't see how single heater, in a living room for example, can provide that required temp to all room's. The design of the home, may prevent this. I have always called out a bedroom missing a heat source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resqman Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 You can have a single gas furnace heat an entire home. The heat is distributed via a duct system. Usually there is a supply duct to the sleeping room to ensure it is heated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Jones Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Well, yeah. I am assuming that there wasn't a register in the bedroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Where I've seen no heat source is in a loft bedroom open to a living area downstairs. In that case I would mention no heat source just to prevent a callback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I was researching this because there is a room being listed as a "bedroom" but it has no air duct or other heat source, so I thought it could not be listed as a bedroom. The room is off a living room and they put on a louvered door (I know cheesy) there is a register in the living room. I was taught that in order to be considered a bedroom the following had to be present: a closet, 7 foot ceilings, an egress window, and a heat source. But is seems I was taught wrong because I can find nothing requiring a heat source inside the bedroom. So if a room does not have, say a window, it cannot be considered a bedroom and that impacts the value of the home. I don't want someone thinking they are buying a 4 bedroom house only to learn when they go to sell it is only a 3 bedroom house. Anyway the buyers are aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I was researching this because there is a room being listed as a "bedroom" but it has no air duct or other heat source, so I thought it could not be listed as a bedroom. The room is off a living room and they put on a louvered door (I know cheesy) there is a register in the living room. I was taught that in order to be considered a bedroom the following had to be present: a closet, 7 foot ceilings, an egress window, and a heat source. But is seems I was taught wrong because I can find nothing requiring a heat source inside the bedroom. So if a room does not have, say a window, it cannot be considered a bedroom and that impacts the value of the home. I don't want someone thinking they are buying a 4 bedroom house only to learn when they go to sell it is only a 3 bedroom house. Anyway the buyers are aware. There's no requirement for a closet. i wish that bit of lore would just die. There can be a door in lieu of a window. As you've already noted, the room has to maintain 68 degrees without resorting to plug-in space heaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 Sounds like the usual realtor listing fluff. They do this all the time in Chicago....calling a closet a BR. Arguing with a realtor is like taking up a dispute with a camel, it'll never go anywhere, so I don't bother. I tell people there's no heat, cite the issue of noncompliance, and let them argue it if they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 ...codes don't even label bedroom. They call it a room used for sleeping purposes. In that case the louvered door was meant by the equity maximizing owner to be the heat source, as by osmosis. Was it 7'X10'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted December 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 It was actually a regular size room probably 12 x 12. It just goes to show how much folklore and misinformation there is out there. Now Jim says there is no requirement for a closet either - gee-whiz, just when I thought I knew it all. I'm sure I'm not alone in having thought code required a heat source and closet inside the room. I've heard it repeated so many times over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resqman Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 To broaden the comment there is no such thing as a bedroom in the code... It is a sleeping room. CODE only requires a heat source, emergency egress, 8% natural light, 4% natural ventilation, and smoke alarm. Closets are not required. That is a agent thing. Code does not require any closets anywhere anytime. If there is a closet, then there are a variety of things that can and cannot happen in closets. For example the spacing of light fixtures to storage, housing an electrical panel if designed for clothes storage, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 It is a sleeping room. CODE only requires a heat source, emergency egress, 8% natural light, 4% natural ventilation, and smoke alarm. Where do you find that CODE requires a heat source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Exactly my point, Bill, about the louvered door. I think there is also a privacy section about a BR door being lockable? It is a sleeping room. CODE only requires a heat source, emergency egress, 8% natural light, 4% natural ventilation, and smoke alarm. Where do you find that CODE requires a heat source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resqman Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 It is a sleeping room. CODE only requires a heat source, emergency egress, 8% natural light, 4% natural ventilation, and smoke alarm. Where do you find that CODE requires a heat source? Your right. Circular thinking. My fault. Habitable space must be able to be heated to 68 degrees, 3 feet above the floor, 2 feet from the wall. Since sleeping rooms are habitable space, must be heated. Does not say a dedicated heating supply, just able to achieve temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Is there anything still in the CODE that sez no using individual heating units/space heaters as central heating equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Is there anything still in the CODE that sez no using individual heating units/space heaters as central heating equipment? As long as it's not portable electric plug-in units, I suspect. I don't know if a window AC/heat unit is an acceptable heater. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector57 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 R303.8 Required heating. When the winter design temperature in Table R301.2(1) is below 60?F (16?C), every dwelling unit shall be provided with heating facilities capable of maintaining a minimum room temperature of 68?F (20?C) at a point 3 feet (914mm)above the floor and 2 feet (610mm) from exterior walls in all habitable rooms at the design temperature. The installation of one or more portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section. Portable regardless of fuel type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Should a window unit be considered a portable unit? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Booth Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Should a window unit be considered a portable unit? Marc .......my take: if actually installed in a window, it should be considered a portable unit. The same equipment installed in a thru-wall sleeve should be considered permanent /fixed..........Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I was just curious. If there's not a heat source tied to central heating equipment, I describe it in the report and (almost always) can it....and let the client inform me how they feel about it. If they want something more (usually do), I'll get into a brief discussion of options. Which usually means get a ****ing heat source in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector57 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I have seen several types of fixed heating systems that are not "central". Might not work in the more frigid areas though. Two that come to mind are electric radiant heat with individual room thermostats (ceiling cable behind drywall,) and Electric base board heaters which are fixed in place and hard wired. Back in the old days, we had "Dearborn" space heaters in various rooms, those would not be Kosher now (no venting) and they might be considered portable. I kind of come down on the "window=portable" and "through the wall=non-portable" also. Not sure how that would be dealt with by the AHJ though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Radiant electric with individual t-stats, and hard wired electric baseboards are definitely not portable. The radiant ceiling stuff, surprisingly, works OK. The baseboard stuff always smells like burnt dirt, but at least it's a heat source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Here in the land of relatively cheap electricity and where NG has to be piped from the mainland, electric baseboard heat is the way to go for bedroom heat. Even better are the wall mounted fan heaters. So I rarely come across an unheated bedroom, and if so, call for a wall-mounted electric heater. This requires some creative wiring by a professional. I once inspected a mobile home that had no bedroom heat, but had a 1200 watt baseboard heater installed in the adjacent bathroom. The E panel was full, and with 60 amp service, no more capacity for 240 volt heating circuits. Mobile home parks sometimes are underpowered that way. The solution I suggested was to replace the oversized bathroom heater with a 350 or 500 watt unit so that the bedroom could have a 750 watt baseboard heater installed on that circuit. My client chose to walk instead. Electric baseboard heaters don't smell if they are kept clean, vacuumed once in a while and in regular use. I like inspecting the dusty ones, power it up, smell the burning dust, turn it off. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Here in China, electric baseboard heat is advertised as "American Style Electric Heating!". It's a feature. No one turns it on. That would cost money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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