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The Certainteed rep and the installer have both stated to a client of mine that it's fine and acceptable to nail 3 in 1 shingles in or above the glue strip instead of an inch lower where the directions tell you to nail.

They went on to further state that it's common practice to install ice and water shield then put the drip edge over that even though Certainteed shows drip edge as the first step.

Exposed nails are absolutely fine just so long as they're caulked with silicone. It doesn't even matter how many there are.

It's OK to face nail shingles through flashings (silicone on the nail again)

Plumbing vent flashings are supposed to have exposed nails, just caulk them.

Of course the installer can come back and sink the dozens of under driven and steep angle driven nails at any time.

I never knew there was so much leeway in Certainteed's installation instructions. They must not disqualify any roofs at all due to poor installation.

And the sheeting that's slapping on the roof, because..well, they missed the rafters when they tried to nail it on. It's fine though. Liquid nails applied after the fact is going to perform better than real nails. Real nails are obsolete.

Wait..it can't be... well maybe...do you all think Certainteed said it's OK because the roofer is a good customer?

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Chad,

I feel your pain. IMHO CertainTeed could care less how the shingles are installed as long as the Builders keep buying them.

I sent them a letter and CD of 90 photo's of a new roof that had most all the nails above the sealant strip, some with nails up to 11 inches from the edge and many with only 3 nails in them. I never heard back from them.

The reason I sent the letter and CD in the first place was because of a roof their regional Rep had supposedly inspected and issued an "alls okay" letter to my Client.

The regional rep said the "roof appeared to substantially comply with CertainTeeds Installation Instructions and the shingles in the report appeared to be limited to a small area".

On the other hand, I've seen great results from the folks over at Owens Corning. They don't allow their product to be installed like crap. They'll be the 1st to tell the Builder that they aren't warrantying a crappy install. (well, 2nd, because I'm usually the 1st one to tell the Builder the roof installation is crap).

This same rep gave the Builder a "alls okay" letter, who in turn sent it out to homeowners in this subdivision after Hurricane Rita last year, saying their roofs were okay, installation was okay, etc, etc. What was funny is that the form letter was dated 4 days before Rita made landfall.

My statements to my Clients now when I find a crappy CertainTeed install is that they'll probably say it's okay, just get their form letter saying so.

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One of my clients got a letter from a Certainteed rep that was similar to that but also said that the fasteners -- nails or staples -- only need to penetrate 1/8" into the roof sheathing.

I said, "Doesn't he mean through the sheathing and 1/8" beyond?"

Nope.

I couldn't get a copy of that letter because the customer was so mad at me for "making up" bogus roofing requirements when his roof was fine.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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1. Quit working with the area rep.

He is not a tradesman, he has two jobs. Sell material & keep the contractor happy.

2. Contact the head of the company, tell him that the sales rep said this and provide him with a copy of anything written. Then tell the boss that you need him to take a stand on one side or the other. Is it right or wrong. Let him know that you need the answer in writing and the correct answer may prevent his company from being added to a pending lawsuit.[:-dev3]

I did this and got a letter from a stucco company that said that if our product is not installed as shown in our installation instructions, it is not warranted. Then he sent me cards from the builder where the builder stated he installed it correct.

Bottom line, area rep is looking for work. Stucco was repaired by builder. My client is happy.

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Hi,

What series of shingle was it? Nailing locations vary by shingle. I've got Certainteed's Master Shingle Applicator Manual and under Section 8 - Correct Fastening and General Fastening Rules To Keep In Mind it says:

"Fasteners should not go into, above, or betwen the self-sealing strips. If they do, the shingles may not seal properly and will be more likely to blow off. If an occasional nail is out of place, be sure that it is hammered down flush. Generally fasteners should be 5/8" above the top of the cutout."

Then the next sentence says:

"Fasteners must not be exposed;i.e., visible on the finished roof."

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

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I wouldn't get my shorts in a wad about it; the rep is covering all bases. We're just professional list makers.

You made a good/correct list. If folks wanna ignore it, that's their business. I'd send 'em the mfg's. spec's w/the report, but that would be about it.

As an aside (and I'm not proposing this is right), nailing them where they nailed them won't make much difference until a cyclone comes along. At that point, you can smile & tell everyone "see?.....)

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Hi,

Yeah, you're right. 4 nails per shingle, an inch from each end and above the slots just below the seal strip 5-5/8" from the lower edge. Kurt's right. You've got the higher ground, just write it and make sure the client understands that you're right and that the client is prepared for that day. It gets pretty windy when it rains in your part of the world. Were those shingles adhered to the seal strip? If not, they should have been hand sealed as well.

OT - OF!!!

M.

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Jim, your last post makes me cringe, since that happens a lot more often than it should. Oftentimes it's a burden when we know more and understand more than the folks who come behind us to effect repairs or make further assessments.

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