Garfield Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Greetings, I have a new GAF 30 yr roof. Have about 100 nails exposed under the seams of shingles. Roofer says no worries it won't leak. I think sooner or somewhat latter it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 So you can see nail heads between the tabs without having to lift the row above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Well the shingles butt up pretty snug so on the vast majority you do have to lift a tab to see the nail. on some where they are not butted so tight against one another you can see the nail between the the two shingles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/22740.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Originally posted by Garfield Greetings, I have a new GAF 30 yr roof. Have about 100 nails exposed under the seams of shingles. Roofer says no worries it won't leak. I think sooner or somewhat latter it will. Exposed nail heads corrode and will likely allow leakage, someday. Call the shingle manufacturer for backup to show the *roofer*. (Uhmm...or, just ask Bob.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Originally posted by Garfield Well the shingles butt up pretty snug so on the vast majority you do have to lift a tab to see the nail. on some where they are not butted so tight against one another you can see the nail between the the two shingles. If I understand you correctly, the nails are in the correct location vertically but they're in the incorrect location horizontally; they fall directly below the butt joints between shingles. Is this right? If the nails are properly placed and the shingles are properly offset, the nails shouldn't be anywhere near those butt joints. Water will run over the nail heads and they will eventually rust. If they're hot-dipped, it'll take many years. If they're electroplated, they'll rust 1 hour after the rooferââ¬â¢s installation warranty expires. The nail heads are really quite easy to fix. Just apply a tiny (pea-sized) daub of roofing mastic to each nail head. They'll be fine. I'd be more concerned about the overall nailing pattern. If the nails are where they shouldnââ¬â¢t be that means they're not where they should be. (Damn, I hope Bonnie isn't reading this.) The roofer might have to add nails to meet GAFââ¬â¢s minimum nailing requirements. Also check the offsets. The worst possible situation here would be that the nails are in the correct places but the shingles are improperly offset. Each course should be roughly 5" to the side of the preceding course. -Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 On architectural shingles with no keys to direct nailing it's inevitable that some nails will be exactly where the butt joint is on the following course of shingles. Most of the laminated shingles can be overlapped a half inch or so to give coverage without affecting the aesthetic of the roof. Of course it takes a cognizant, quality conscious roofer to catch these instances as they come up and fix them. It works even better if you select a shingle with only one lamination on the side to be overlapped. If this is done there's absolutely no noticeable lumpy look. Jim's black goo fix will probably last the life of the roof: goo=3/4 of good. Another solution is to slip an inch wide section of single layer shingle over the nail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Chew Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Originally posted by Jim Katen The nail heads are really quite easy to fix. Just apply a tiny (pea-sized) daub of roofing mastic to each nail head. They'll be fine. Originally posted by Chad Fabry Jim's black goo fix will probably last the life of the roof: goo=3/4 of good. Garfield says this is a "new GAF 30 yr roof" and the GAF tech sheet that Bob posted says "Any type of roof cement or caulk used as a method of repair is not considered a permanent repair. This method of repair is an exclusion from coverage." While I agree with Jim and Chad that the mastic would probably work ok for a while, if you want GAF to stand behind that 30 year warranty then the roofer is going to have to carefully remove the improperly nailed shingles, replace them with new shingles, and then nail them on the right way. As Jerry said, call the manufacturer's tech rep to back you up when you deal with the roofer. 100 shiners sound like a lot to me. How big is the roof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Chad writes: On architectural shingles with no keys to direct nailing it's inevitable that some nails will be exactly where the butt joint is on the following course of shingles. For the first time in my memory, I'm going to disagree with Chad. If the shingles are properly offset, the nails should occur about 5-6 inches away from the butt joints. It takes a sorry-ass roofer to miss his mark by 6 inches. It's not inevitable; it's just sloppy. Most of the laminated shingles can be overlapped a half inch or so to give coverage without affecting the aesthetic of the roof. Of course it takes a cognizant, quality conscious roofer to catch these instances as they come up and fix them. It works even better if you select a shingle with only one lamination on the side to be overlapped. If this is done there's absolutely no noticeable lumpy look. The problem with that solution is that, once you start shifting shingles left & right, you can screw up you offsets. Brandon writes: Garfield says this is a "new GAF 30 yr roof" and the GAF tech sheet that Bob posted says "Any type of roof cement or caulk used as a method of repair is not considered a permanent repair. This method of repair is an exclusion from coverage." I wouldnââ¬â¢t necessarily call it a repair. ARMA (and almost certainly GAF) instruct installers to use mastic under shingles to seal them against high winds. They also direct installers to protect the heads of exposed nails (for instance at the last ridge or hip cap) with a dot of mastic. This technique is part of the installation instructions. While I agree with Jim and Chad that the mastic would probably work ok for a while, if you want GAF to stand behind that 30 year warranty then the roofer is going to have to carefully remove the improperly nailed shingles, replace them with new shingles, and then nail them on the right way. I disagree. If they do that, they'll screw it up worse than it was. At the end of the day, a simple dot of mastic is less likely to fail. As for the warranty, it isn't really a warranty issue. If the roof leaks and you call GAF, they'll say, "This isn't a product failure. It's an installation failure. Call the installer. Our product is fine." As Jerry said, call the manufacturer's tech rep to back you up when you deal with the roofer. The manufacturer's tech rep will almost always back the roofer. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Originally posted by Jim Katen If the roof leaks and you call GAF, they'll say, "This isn't a product failure. It's an installation failure. Call the installer. Our product is fine." As Jerry said, call the manufacturer's tech rep to back you up when you deal with the roofer. The manufacturer's tech rep will almost always back the roofer. - Jim Katen, Oregon Uhmmm...on the one hand, you imply the manufacturer will blame the installer. On the next, you imply the manufacturer will side with the installer. I'm so confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 For the first time in my memory, I'm going to disagree with Chad. If the shingles are properly offset, the nails should occur about 5-6 inches away from the butt joints. It takes a sorry-ass roofer to miss his mark by 6 inches. It's not inevitable; it's just sloppy. It is sloppy. The problem is, with the featureless landscape of an architectural shingle, no one measures the cuts for the starter shingles. I have never viewed an installation that follows manufacturers guidelines for the starter shingle dimensions. Well, my roof is installed correctly, but except for my roof I haven't seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Originally posted by Jerry Simon Originally posted by Jim Katen If the roof leaks and you call GAF, they'll say, "This isn't a product failure. It's an installation failure. Call the installer. Our product is fine." As Jerry said, call the manufacturer's tech rep to back you up when you deal with the roofer. The manufacturer's tech rep will almost always back the roofer. - Jim Katen, Oregon Uhmmm...on the one hand, you imply the manufacturer will blame the installer. On the next, you imply the manufacturer will side with the installer. Sure. It depends on whether or not a claim has been filed. If there's no claim, and you're just calling to ask if the installer's done something wrong, the manufacturer will suck up to the installer and tell everyone it's fine. They want to sell more shingles to this guy. If they piss him off, he'll go buy another brand next time. On the other hand, if a roof fails, the manufacturer isn't going to take responsibility for mis-application of its product. They'll just say, truthfully, that their warranty doesn't apply to the installation of the shingles. (Certainteed's Surestart Plus warranty is an exception.) It's not like it makes much difference. The warranty curve is so steep that it's practically useless anyway. I never refer people to the manufacturer because I never know what the manufacturer will say. I refer people to the "manufacturer's printed instructions" because I know exactly what they say. - Jim Katen, Oregon (Certainteed MSA Wizard) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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