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I love it! The damn truth, there it is! Crooks and thieves, every last one of 'em, exploiting peoples ignorance and fear for a buck. If that isn't fraud, what the heck is it?

I'm putting a link to that on my website tonight.

Brian G.

DDMG Charter Member [:-angel]

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Originally posted by Brian G

Crooks and thieves, every last one of 'em, exploiting peoples ignorance and fear for a buck. If that isn't fraud, what the heck is it?

Brian G.

DDMG Charter Member [:-angel]

Do you mean the newspeople, setting people up, claiming false headaches; or the mold guys?

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I love to bash mold testers as much as the next guy, but that segment was more of a sham than a sting.

Even if those guys were thieves, they were set up. The eyeliner was a deliberate deception, as were the outright lies that the homeowner told them.

Did anyone else catch the industrial hygienist using his Delmhorst pin-type meter on the drywall right over the corner bead?

It was just lazy journalism.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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Originally posted by Jerry Simon

Originally posted by Brian G

Crooks and thieves, every last one of 'em, exploiting peoples ignorance and fear for a buck. If that isn't fraud, what the heck is it?

Brian G.

DDMG Charter Member [:-angel]

Do you mean the newspeople, setting people up, claiming false headaches; or the mold guys?

I'd say it was the guys who wanted to charge $450 for a lab test and several thousand dollars to re-mediate mildew and mascara.

Who else is going to keep business like these, including Home Inspectors, honest if not the media? Most homeowners would have paid these guys what they asked from total lack of knowledge, the same goes regrettably for the Home Inspection business, where in many States all you need is a business card, a flashlight, and a screwdriver.......some may save the expense of the flashlight because they never look anywhere that's dark.

Here's another link about mold that could be used on HI websites.

http://www.epa.gov/mold/moldcourse/siteinstruction.html

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Jerry,

I agree the setup was bogus too. When diagnosing any problem, you have to take into account all the symptoms. When the people said they cleaned it away twice already and it came back and claiming the head aches could make one believe such. BUT! I do think the inspectors made their definite decisions way to fast and did over exaggerate the work required to fix it. Sealing off the room and declaring they should not enter it again until repaired is pure and simple a scare tactic.

Regardless, this video makes me feel even better about my decision regarding mold inspections. No way in hell am I ever gonna do them. I could care less if I find mold that speaks English and tells me it's mold, I'm going to write it up as "Discoloring noted on (location) get a qualified mold inspector to evaluate and make recommendations"

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I have a ProLab Mold kit, pump etc. that has been living under my desk for two years and has never yet made it out of its box. Once I thought mold inspections might be a good idea, then I studied the subject some more and decided I didn't want anything to do with it, helped along by many posts from Caoimhín P. Connell the Industrial Hygeinist who has posted here quite often, and has been very helpful to those who have read his posts and the websites he provided.

Here's a link he posted that these Mold Guys in the video should have read. Great information, thanks again Caoimhin!

http://forensic-applications.com/moulds/habits.html

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Originally posted by Jim Katen

I love to bash mold testers as much as the next guy, but that segment was more of a sham than a sting.

Even if those guys were thieves, they were set up. The eyeliner was a deliberate deception, as were the outright lies that the homeowner told them.

Did anyone else catch the industrial hygienist using his Delmhorst pin-type meter on the drywall right over the corner bead?

It was just lazy journalism.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Amen! Hallelujah! And pass the ammunition! Yes, I, too, caught the Delmhorst joke.

I can't and don't watch the tube anymore--my blood pressure boils.

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Originally posted by ozofprev

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Well, except that there's no such thing as a "qualified mold inspector."

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Do you include Daniel Friedman in that statement?Dan's site

Friedman's a genuine building scientist. He's got real education and real credentials. I don't consider him a "mold inspector" and I doubt that he'd ever call himself one.

From everything I can see, the term "mold inspector" is synonymous with the term "fraud."

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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Everybody connected to this "story" was lazy and sloppy. But mostly, it was just ignorance on parade. Homeowners ought to have enough common sense to know that "mold inspectors" are just ripoff artists. "Mold inspectors" ought to be at least smart enough to avoid getting caught scamming. The "journalists" ought to be smart enough to anticipate pitfalls, trip-ups, etc.

All of the people in the story deserve each other. Reminds me of the Hunter Thompson quote back during the Pulitzer trial. To paraphrase, it went something like this: He did it, she did it, they all did it. The cops ought to take the children away from these people, and sell them to the Arabs.

WJ

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That's my take.

They're all scumballs, but at least the new non-story could minimize the silliness that's characterized the entire mold non-story so far.

I'm w/Randy; it's why I don't watch any TV outside of The Colbert Report. I prefer fake news to this stuff.

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Originally posted by Jim Katen

Even if those guys were thieves, they were set up. The eyeliner was a deliberate deception, as were the outright lies that the homeowner told them.

The cops do the exact same thing to "real" criminals all the time; drug and gun dealers, smugglers, and yes, even con men. It's 100% legal and the bad guys go to jail as a result. To say they were set up suggests they weren't doing anything wrong to start with. I beg to differ. They're frauds. They lie and steal for a living. They just do it in a grey area the law hasn't stepped into yet.

Ask yourself this gentlemen. If you had been called out to look at the same situation, what would your advise to the homeowner have been? Rip out the whole bathroom? Or maybe just the vanity and the one wall behind it? Would you have immediately declared the mascara "toxic mold"? For most of you, I already know the answers. Most of you could not be "set up" for this kind of trap, because you aren't frauds; you don't make a living from lying and stealing.

It was just lazy journalism.

I'm sure it could have been done better, but it does help expose a national scam at thier local level. How is that wrong? Where is the often heard hue and cry for "educated consumers"?

Brian G.

Fraud Is Fraud [:-yuck]

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Originally posted by Jim Katen

Originally posted by ozofprev

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Well, except that there's no such thing as a "qualified mold inspector."

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Do you include Daniel Friedman in that statement?Dan's site

Friedman's a genuine building scientist. He's got real education and real credentials. I don't consider him a "mold inspector" and I doubt that he'd ever call himself one.

From everything I can see, the term "mold inspector" is synonymous with the term "fraud."

- Jim Katen, Oregon

You're wrong, Jim.

If you go to the following link, he writes, "HIRE AN EXPERT" and has a hyperlink under that titled, "Find a mold inspectorid="maroon">."

Go here and click on Find a mold inspector (Scroll down a bit)

Click on that link and you will find he lists himself (And Pete Engle).

As you know, mold inspection has been a popular topic at TIJ before. On one of those threads, I mentioned that I knew a VERY smart HI who was disappointed that I was choosing NOT to do mold inspections. It was Daniel to which I referred.

He believes a home inspector has a much better opportunity to provide mold inspections than any IAQ expert.

I have little doubt that you know him and Pete well enough to turn this around, but as of now - he does call himself a mold inspector and he does believe that HIs should be inspecting for mold.

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Originally posted by jhagarty

Originally posted by Lewis Capaul

I have a ProLab Mold kit, pump etc. that has been living under my desk for two years and has never yet made it out of its box...

And that suggests what???

Fooled Twice but not Three Times?

Actually Joe, for once you're fairly accurate. I was "fooled twice" but not the third time.

Once I fell for a marketing scam that told me if I set through 16 hours of classroom lectures I would be an Expert in Mold Testing, then I fell for the $200 off testing equipment only during the "Convention.....yep, I was fooled twice.

Then I got home and started thinking about it, why would I use the scare tactics taught at your Convention to sell unnecessary Mold Inspections to clients who were purchasing homes that had no evidence of mold or moisture problems, and if I was performing a Home Inspection and found evidence of possible mold or conditions why wouldn't it make more sense to refer the possible mold to someone who specializes in its detection and remediation, someone with more than a simple Air Testing Kit and good intentions.

Then I took a few more classes in both WDO and Mold, and Mr. Connel began posting on your Message Board, where he was not very well received by your IAC2 Experts, several of us did read and agree with his posts and the articles he provided, although to carry on an intelligent conversation about mold and the liabilities you assume when you test for it, we had to resort to e-mail to get away from the "Experts" and all their "FU" comments and replies to Mr. Connel and those of us who agreed with him.

So my testing kit lives under my desk, I've been trying to think of a good use for it. It does make a pretty good foot rest, I'm using it now, but I was thinking of something more practical, like using it as a vacuum pump for laminating fiberglass and when doing inlay work on wood working project, maybe as a "home made" Seal a Meal?

I believe most Home Inspectors who offer Mold Inspections are honest, and that they offer the testing AFTER they find evidence of possible mold, but many, just like the Mold guys in this video, use "MOLD" as a scare tactic for nothing but profit, and they're never wrong, they will always find Mold spores, and there will almost always be a higher spore count indoors than out. What a deal their clients get. $450 for a Lab Test?? You'd probably have to be a "Certified Master..........." to charge that, right Joe?

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Originally posted by Scottpat

Has anyone ever noticed what home inspector organization most home inspectors who test for mold are associated with? Funny how they go hand in hand with each other.

Charter member DDMG

Isn't that the sort of topic we are supposed to stay away from here? It does absolutely nothing to to further discussion of the actual topic.

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Lewis,

You have hit on the real issue plaguing home inspection, IAQ, hair salon products, and online diplomas. It centers on the stupifying of our entire society.

There are innumerable 'companies' offering 'education' in home inspection, IAQ, CO detection, IR analysis and booger flicking.

They make intelligent people cringe at the thought of associating themselves with such an 'education'.

That, in turn, leaves the true experts in such things in a quandary.

YES, Daniel Friedman lists himself as a mold inspector. He should be proud to do so, given the incredible depth of knowledge he has amassed in the field. Truly a spectacular, and very kind soul!

Until rigorous education and or training in all things home inspection related, this will continue to be the sort of field where people say, "Yeah, and did you ever notice that these guys are in *****?"

There are people who should be ashamed to prostitute themselves as mold inspectors. There are others who should rightfully be proud to call themselves such. The same is true of home inspection in general.

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Originally posted by ozofprev

Originally posted by Scottpat

Has anyone ever noticed what home inspector organization most home inspectors who test for mold are associated with? Funny how they go hand in hand with each other.

Charter member DDMG

Isn't that the sort of topic we are supposed to stay away from here? It does absolutely nothing to to further discussion of the actual topic.

Nah, I don't think so. They go hand in hand. Each company supports the other, you never see one without the other next to their side.

Pro-Lab has caused and supported the Mold is Gold Rush in the home inspector profession. Home inspectors should not be testing for mold they need to be looking for the cause of the problem.

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[:-banghea

You did not say that people in a certain organization take the simple path to learning (i.e., boondoggles). You did say that people who belong to a certain organization do mold inspection. There is a huge difference. Daniel does mold inspection and he belongs to the the same organization as you.

You cannot automatically connect a mold inspector with Pro-Lab anymore than you can automatically connect a home inspector with the Podunk School of Home Inspection and Beauty Products.

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