John Dirks Jr Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 I may have the two confused. How can you tell by that picture which type it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 CSST has the yellow jacket. Some connectors also have a yellow jacket, but I've never seen one in sizes as large as the diameter shown there. It's obviously a supply pipe coming through the rim and it supplies gas to that down-pipe. Somewhere out of sight of that picture, that downpipe connects to the water heater and the boilder/furnace and there may or may not be a flexible connector at the end of that downpipe between the piple and the appliance. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Here is a picture of a flexible connector with a yellow jacket. I called this one out on a job I did. Can I assume that the CSST has more smooth surface? At least thats how it appears in pictures I just searched for. Image Insert: 117.5 KB AS for the rule of 1&1/2 foot of "vent connector" per inch of diameter, I read that suggestion in "The Principles of Home Inspection" published by Dearborn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by AHI Here is a picture of a flexible connector with a yellow jacket. I called this one out on a job I did. Can I assume that the CSST has more smooth surface? At least thats how it appears in pictures I just searched for. Image Insert: 117.5 KB Yeah, I've seen connectors like that. See the way the corrugated section stops short of the fitting? CSST goes right up into the fitting. AS for the rule of 1&1/2 foot of "vent connector" per inch of diameter, I read that suggestion in "The Principles of Home Inspection" published by DearbornWell, there's the problem right there; the dearborn stuff is chock full of home inspector folklore and outright innacurate information. It's not the kind of text that a newbie home inspector wants to rely on without verything what he or she reads with some other texts. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Hey John, Nice job with that yellow appliance connector. For future new HIs, here's a pic of csst: And here's a connector with a yellow jacket: I think I need to get rid of some house parts pics stored on my hard drive. Replace 'em with porn, like normal guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by hausdok Sure, the rule for an uninsulated connector is < 75% of the vertical vent Just 'cuz a connector meets that rule, doesn't mean it's not too long. I've found plenty that allow too much cooling to either establish and maintain a draft or are creating major condensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by inspecthistoric Originally posted by hausdok Sure, the rule for an uninsulated connector is < 75% of the vertical vent Just 'cuz a connector meets that rule, doesn't mean it's not too long. I've found plenty that allow too much cooling to either establish and maintain a draft or are creating major condensation. I'm not disagreeing. I write vents for damage caused by excessive condensation all the time - almost daily. If I were in your area, had that basement, and it were unheated and had a single-walled pipe, I probably would write it up for that very reason. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Thanks for the pics Bill. Now wouldn't you admit how it could be easy for the less experienced to get the two mixed up? More questions? 1. Can a flexible connector be attached directly to the CSST to complete the connection to an appliance? 2. Can CSST be directly attached to an appliance without using a flexible connector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Chew Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 1. Can a flexible connector be attached directly to the CSST to complete the connection to an appliance? If the CSST ends in a listed termination outlet, is properly supported at the connection, and an appliance shut-off valve is installed, then a flexible connector can be used between it and the appliance. 2. Can CSST be directly attached to an appliance without using a flexible connector? CSST can be directly connected to the appliance shut-off valve on a fixed appliance. For movable appliances, a flex connector between the CSST and the appliance is required. Install instructions for TracPipe are available here: http://www.omegaflex.com/trac/downloads.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Hi, Gastite is here: http://www.gastite.com/page.php?pg=tech ... link=link6 Tried to upload it to the library but it wouldn't go 'cuz it's 13Mb. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msteger Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Originally posted by hausdok CSST has the yellow jacket. Some connectors also have a yellow jacket, but I've never seen one in sizes as large as the diameter shown there. It's obviously a supply pipe coming through the rim and it supplies gas to that down-pipe. Somewhere out of sight of that picture, that downpipe connects to the water heater and the boilder/furnace and there may or may not be a flexible connector at the end of that downpipe between the piple and the appliance. OT - OF!!! M. It was CSST and feeds a gas stove in the kitchen above this area. Does this type of installation for CSST require a sleeve (like a short peice of PVC pipe) where the CSST passes through the floor? I call this out all of the time for CSST feeding gas fireplaces. You check out the CSST right where it passes through the metal opening and often it is burred. Sometimes I find leaks here too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Originally posted by msteger Does this type of installation for CSST require a sleeve (like a short peice of PVC pipe) where the CSST passes through the floor? I call this out all of the time for CSST feeding gas fireplaces. You check out the CSST right where it passes through the metal opening and often it is burred. Sometimes I find leaks here too. Simple answer, no. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 One of the best classes I had during the past couple of years was the Gastite presentation. If you can get to one or your local association can book one, then do it! Info on Gastite is often wrong if not from the company. You could fill this page with stuff that has been written. For instance, can you buy the stuff at the local big box? Go to their website and read. Read everything you can on all CSST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msteger Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Originally posted by hausdok Originally posted by msteger Does this type of installation for CSST require a sleeve (like a short peice of PVC pipe) where the CSST passes through the floor? I call this out all of the time for CSST feeding gas fireplaces. You check out the CSST right where it passes through the metal opening and often it is burred. Sometimes I find leaks here too. Simple answer, no. OT - OF!!! M. So, was AHI confusing the CSST with appliance connector material? (see top of this page) CSST doesn't need a piece of PVC pipe (for example) where it passes through a floor or wall, but a plastic appliance connector does? I see the plumbing code requires flexible tubing to be protected from mechanical damage, such as where it passes through something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Hi, Yes, it does need protection from nails when passing through a wall stud - just like wiring or pipe, but it doesn't need to be sleeved when passing up through floor sills or wall plates. Go to the links posted above for best guidance. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msteger Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Good resource. I often see unprotected CSST run into gas fireplaces and burrs in the metal opening can damage the CSST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dirks Jr Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 msteger, you mentioned "plastic appliance connector". As far as gas appliance connectors are concerned I am not aware that any of them are made of plastic. If some of them are, can someone concur? Below I posted a link to gas appliance flexible connectors and safety concerns related to them. To my knowledge none of these flexible connectors should pass through a wall, floor, cabinet etc...under any circumstances, even if sleeved. If I'm wrong here too, somebody please correct me. http://www.bge.com/portal/site/bge/menu ... 0d66166a0/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Hi, He misspoke. I'm sure that he meant to say plastic-coated connectors. You are correct, a "connector" - a short flexible pipe used between the end of the primary fuel line and the appliance must not pass through a wall, floor, etc., but don't confuse CSST with a connector. The rules for CSST are different despite their similarities to connectors. You guys would probably not sleep well if you were in Seoul, Korea. The entire city is plumbed with plastic gas line that's buried about 18 inches below grade. I watched them installing the stuff back in 1993. Most homeowners use a length of soft rubber hose clamped onto a fitting like you'd see with an an air compressor to bring the gas from the meter into their homes for the water heater or hydronic boiler for the floor heat. In my brother-in-laws place it comes through a hole drilled through a door jamb, snakes across the wall and then goes along the backsplash at the kitchen counter before dropping behind the stove. It was identical to the rubber fuel line hose one can purchase in an auto parts store. That's in Korea which is technologically pretty good. I was reading about how in China folks were stealing natural gas from leaking pipes at refineries by using large plastic blivets made from some kind of plastic bag material and would ride on down the street with them on the back of a bicycle and then plumb them to their houses with a length of hose, a clamp, and a screwdriver. OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearthman Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 CSST, being listed, can penetrate walls, floors and ceilings as provided in the listing. This usually requires strike protection within 6-8 inches of a fixed point such as where it exits a stud plate. As long as the hose can flop, it is much more resistant to penetration. CSST is listed to LC-1 Flexible appliance connectors are listed to ANSI Z21.24 HTH, Hearthman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Lewis Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Originally posted by hausdok Hi, Yes, it does need protection from nails when passing through a wall stud - just like wiring or pipe Nail plates required even when the hole for the wire or pipe is set back 1 1/2 inches from the face of the stud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Read the manuals at the links above guys! OT - OF!!! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msteger Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Originally posted by hausdok Hi, He misspoke. I'm sure that he meant to say plastic-coated connectors. You are correct, a "connector" - a short flexible pipe used between the end of the primary fuel line and the appliance must not pass through a wall, floor, etc., but don't confuse CSST with a connector. The rules for CSST are different despite their similarities to connectors. You guys would probably not sleep well if you were in Seoul, Korea. The entire city is plumbed with plastic gas line that's buried about 18 inches below grade. I watched them installing the stuff back in 1993. Most homeowners use a length of soft rubber hose clamped onto a fitting like you'd see with an an air compressor to bring the gas from the meter into their homes for the water heater or hydronic boiler for the floor heat. In my brother-in-laws place it comes through a hole drilled through a door jamb, snakes across the wall and then goes along the backsplash at the kitchen counter before dropping behind the stove. It was identical to the rubber fuel line hose one can purchase in an auto parts store. That's in Korea which is technologically pretty good. I was reading about how in China folks were stealing natural gas from leaking pipes at refineries by using large plastic blivets made from some kind of plastic bag material and would ride on down the street with them on the back of a bicycle and then plumb them to their houses with a length of hose, a clamp, and a screwdriver. OT - OF!!! M. Yes, I mis-spoke. Sorry for the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneRoche Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 Can anyone provide the exact text from HVAC IRC 2426.5.6.2/umc 809.0? This is in reference to the discussion about venting gas fired heater and oil fired boiler into the same chimney flue. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 What year is that suppose to be in the IRC? There is no 2426.5.6.2 in the 2003 or 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 What year is that suppose to be in the IRC? There is no 2426.5.6.2 in the 2003 or 2006 This might be it Phillip: G2427.5.6.2 (503.5.7.2) Liquid fuel-burning appliances.Where one chimney flue serves gas appliances and liquid fuel-burning appliances, the appliances shall be connected through separate openings or shall be connected through a single opening where joined by a suitable fitting located as close as practical to the chimney. Where two or more openings are provided into one chimney flue, they shall be at different levels. Where the appliances are automatically controlled, they shall be equipped with safety shutoff devices. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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