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Flue clearance and height


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Originally posted by crusty

Out here (UMC) it's 3 ft above the roof where it penetrates and 2 ft above any roof surface or wall within 10 ft horizontally.

That is code everywhere (IRC 2000 and 2003). Specific jurisdictions may enforce "more stringent" code but at minimum, 3ft above the roof where it emerges and 2ft above any roof line or wall that is within 10ft horizontally is the code.

The pictured flue is not code.

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Originally posted by Integrity1st

Originally posted by crusty

Out here (UMC) it's 3 ft above the roof where it penetrates and 2 ft above any roof surface or wall within 10 ft horizontally.

That is code everywhere (IRC 2000 and 2003). Specific jurisdictions may enforce "more stringent" code but at minimum, 3ft above the roof where it emerges and 2ft above any roof line or wall that is within 10ft horizontally is the code.

The pictured flue is not code.

Not "everywhere" has adopted the IRC.

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Originally posted by mcramer

You guys need to actually read your Code books. The 3-2-10 rule is for solid fuel chimneys, not gas B vents.

B vent can be as low as 1' above the roof, depending on slope. Clearance from a vertical wall is 8' or 2' above.

[:-ashamed][b)][:-blindfold] OOPS ! Correct for the UMC as well.

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Yep. Just looked it up. My bust.

Reading the code manuals is not only S&M, but not really feasible unless have no other life purpose but to read tech books. Even the code officials don't "read" tbe books. Even the certifications don't require that extensive of reading. Those code books are a reference, not reading material.

However, I should pay better attention to finding the code that actually pertains to the situation. That was a lack of attention to detail on my part. Sorry.

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Yeah,

I was thinking it was 8ft, but I didn't bother to chime in 'cuz I have no idea what goes on down there in SBCC country.

Last year I did the last house in a new development for a lady. Found the vent 4ft. from a side wall and called it. The builder had a fit. I showed him my Code Check West (Thanks Douglas, Mike and Redwood) and he insisted all was fine anyway. He called the AHJ out, showed the guy the reference and the AHJ went, "Oops! Guess I screwed up, 'cuz the inspector's right," said the AHJ. They ended up moving a total of about ten vents in that development and the builder was a whole lot friendlier to me and a whole lot upset with the muni guy.

I don't have any code "books". I have all of the CodeChecks and I think those are about all I need. They are reasonably accurate, easy to use, don't require a huge investment and they boil the codes down to short concise statements instead of all of the booorrrrring technical jargon that is hard enough for me to read, let alone my clients.

Glad you were able to get the right answer for your area Danny.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

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Originally posted by Integrity1st

Yep. Just looked it up. My bust.

Reading the code manuals is not only S&M, but not really feasible unless have no other life purpose but to read tech books. Even the code officials don't "read" tbe books. Even the certifications don't require that extensive of reading. Those code books are a reference, not reading material.

However, I should pay better attention to finding the code that actually pertains to the situation. That was a lack of attention to detail on my part. Sorry.

Sorry, but I could not disagree more heartily. How can one know what is in the code books in order to look it up if one has never read it? Rely solely on others to trickle it down to you? Good for beginners in the industry but hardly a blueprint for a life long approach to what it is we do. If one was never alerted to an issue how could one catch it when doing an inspection? How could one know an issue is an issue?

Education in this profession never stops if one is wise and being familiar with the code, while not necessarily memorizing all of it, is imperative in being able to apply it. That is the beginning IMO. After that comes the understanding of the principles underlying the writing of the various code provisions which gives HI's the ability to "interpret" code. You are right, we are not code enforcement inspectors. We can choose to exceed code provisions in our observations if we feel it is in our clients’ best interest. We need to be a notch above a code enforcement official in our qualifications. After all our assets and credibility are on the line which they are not for employees of the AHJ.

One of the great values of a forum like this is to discuss issues, verify and check them against the code. Be careful who you trust. Everyone errs at one time or another and some more often than others. Case and point in my erroneous post above.

I never cease to learn something new from the code book every time I open it and it makes me a better inspector as a result. That is one of the reasons that I post code references rather than copying and pasting the text. I don't want to cheat anyone out of their opportunity to continue their education.

As time progresses you will find more and more that there will be 2 inspections on properties, especially with the curre3nt propensity, especially of listing agents, to want to use lesser qualified inspectors for their listing inspections and especially ones that use inspectors who use the prepackaged non offensive weasel comments. In my area about 65% of the homes are now getting listing inspections and about 1/3 of those get a second inspection for the buyer. I follow other inspectors on about 25% of my inspections.

As this tendency progresses it is not good to be the first guy in line when a more educated inspector follows, working for the buyer. This is the direction of the industry. The wise will continue their education and learning what is in the code is the first step in the direction of the mother lode. On the path to the hopeful forthcoming of true standardization of our industry, the bar will be raised several more times, and only the knowledgeable will be able to get over it.

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Crusty,

I certainly do not knock you for your educating yourself and I am glad you find time to read reference manuals. However, I spend too much time doing inspections to be able to "read" something that is not meant to be "read". The code manuals are a reference, not educational learning material.

However, I do spend plenty of time in classes, seminars, and reading literature on all areas of home inspection, construction, etc., which is more feasible to read and "learn from".

Nobody can remember all those codes nor where exactly a code is in those code books which really deems that reading not too feasible for most people. If you have photogenic memory and can read code manuals and get that much out them, I think you should be doing something other than home inspections, like medical research or something similar.

You certainly are going above and beyond what most consider normal continuing education for a home inspector, especially since code is not really part of the home inspectors area.

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Originally posted by crusty

Originally posted by Integrity1st

Crusty,

especially since code is not really part of the home inspectors area.

If it isn't code, what is the basis for your comments and findings?

And thanks for your concern Dan but I'm getting my 8-12 per week.

We use code to help us determine areas of a home that need attention, but we are not municipal code inspectors using code as our only reporting criteria.

I am a municipal code inspector in addition to being a home inspector. Two very different inspection professions. Yes, home inspections use code when forming reports and suggestions, but not exclusively and definitely not to the point where we need to memorize the code reference manuals.

Like Mike said, the Code Check's are more than enough code reference for what a home inspector is expected to use in their reports.

It's all good.

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I don't want to know all of the codes, but I do know how to look them up if I have a question.

I think that all home inspectors should have basic code knowledge just to perform our job. If you don't know what is proper and what is wrong how can you inspect a home? The code and manufactures guidelines tell us that. So even if you think that home inspectors are not inspecting code compliance we do it every time we do an inspection.

As for municipality inspectors; I think for the most they are doing their job under high pressure. Most have a large number of inspections to perform everyday in addition to other duties that they might be required to do. Many Muni inspectors are not backed up by their superiors (Mayor, etc), being a Muni inspector can be a very political job. In my area most have 20-30 inspections to do everyday, ranging from home additions, commercial buildings, foundations, electrical, plumbing, framing and final inspections. Every Muni inspector I know (5 of them) have either a laptop with codes, code books or Code Check books in their truck.

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Originally posted by Scottpat

I don't want to know all of the codes, but I do know how to look them up if I have a question.

I think that all home inspectors should have basic code knowledge just to perform our job. If you don't know what is proper and what is wrong how can you inspect a home? The code and manufactures guidelines tell us that. So even if you think that home inspectors are not inspecting code compliance we do it every time we do an inspection.

As for municipality inspectors; I think for the most they are doing their job under high pressure. Most have a large number of inspections to perform everyday in addition to other duties that they might be required to do. Many Muni inspectors are not backed up by their superiors (Mayor, etc), being a Muni inspector can be a very political job. In my area most have 20-30 inspections to do everyday, ranging from home additions, commercial buildings, foundations, electrical, plumbing, framing and final inspections. Every Muni inspector I know (5 of them) have either a laptop with codes, code books or Code Check books in their truck.

I agree with all the above 100%. I am familiar enough with the code books to know where to find codes, but there is no way I am even going to try and memorize codes or even "read" code books. For that matter, it's when an inspector tries to memorize codes or interpret codes from memory that he/she gets into trouble by quoting a code incorrectly, etc. Those code books are there for a reference and not intended to be read or studied to memorization for that exact reason.

I have the code checks I purchased from ITA school and I also have the complete collection of 2003 international codes on cd rom disk. I always have my laptop with me, so the code reference on disk, along with my visual inspection report and pictures, I think I am pretty well covered without memorizing codes.

I know a lot of code just from looking up the same defects so much, etc. Even still, I look up the exact code verbage most of the time...if nothing else, but to CMA.

Dan

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Originally posted by crusty

As I re-read the posts I can't find anyone advocating the memorization of code. I for one never quote code or mention the word in a written report.

If not to memorize, why "read" code manuals?

I mention code in my home inspection reports all the time. It substantiates reasons for defects written in the report and suggestions for remediation, etc. There is nothing wrong with backing up your report with code. As non-municipal home inspectors, we just don't use code as the whole basis of our inspection and we do not "enforce" remediation of any defects or code non-compliance like a municipal inspector does.

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Originally posted by crusty

"Nuff said Dan. You and I couldn't agree on how to order a half and half pizza to split.

I don't think there is much to disagree on Crusty. Two other people have said the exact same thing that I have said.

Have it your way. Makes no nevermind to me...

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Originally posted by Scottpat

If y'all have a Home Depot, or Lowe's you can pick up all of the Code Check books. They cost about $16 each.

Yeah, I wish I had waited. I seen them at Home Depot not too long ago. I was gung ho and bought mine from ITA while in training. I think I paid $60 for the 4 set.

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Originally posted by Integrity1st

Originally posted by Scottpat

If y'all have a Home Depot, or Lowe's you can pick up all of the Code Check books. They cost about $16 each.

Yeah, I wish I had waited. I seen them at Home Depot not too long ago. I was gung ho and bought mine from ITA while in training. I think I paid $60 for the 4 set.

Obviously, math is not among your strong points.

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Originally posted by mcramer

Originally posted by Integrity1st

Originally posted by Scottpat

If y'all have a Home Depot, or Lowe's you can pick up all of the Code Check books. They cost about $16 each.

Yeah, I wish I had waited. I seen them at Home Depot not too long ago. I was gung ho and bought mine from ITA while in training. I think I paid $60 for the 4 set.

Obviously, math is not among your strong points.

Actually math isn't my strong point, but I just didn't do the math here at all before posting, which is why I missed this. I struggled to get the A's in Calculus 1,2,& 3 and the A's in statistics, thermodynamics, etc. I got my undergrad in engineering with nearly a 3.8 GPA.

No, I am not the smartest math guy out there, but with an IQ of 130, I survive the math ok.

But...thanks for being so kind to point out my error!

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Originally posted by Integrity1st

Originally posted by mcramer

Originally posted by Integrity1st

Originally posted by Scottpat

If y'all have a Home Depot, or Lowe's you can pick up all of the Code Check books. They cost about $16 each.

Yeah, I wish I had waited. I seen them at Home Depot not too long ago. I was gung ho and bought mine from ITA while in training. I think I paid $60 for the 4 set.

Obviously, math is not among your strong points.

Actually math isn't my strong point, but I just didn't do the math here at all before posting, which is why I missed this. I struggled to get the A's in Calculus 1,2,& 3 and the A's in statistics, thermodynamics, etc. I got my undergrad in engineering with nearly a 3.8 GPA.

No, I am not the smartest math guy out there, but with an IQ of 130, I survive the math ok.

But...thanks for being so kind to point out my error!

No offense intended, it just made me laugh.

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