jones Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Inspected a home couple of weeks ago that had several raised shingles with nail pops. My report states this along with requesting a qualified roofer to seal down the shingles. The roof has one layer of shingles that is approx. 10 years old. Here in Kentucky a couple of months ago we had hurricane type winds that damaged a lot of roofs. The client has since closed on the home and has been told by two separate roofers the shingles can’t be resealed and the roof needs to be replaced or he will be chasing leaks. Guess what, now he wants me to replace his roof. This house was vacant and sold “as is†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Hi Greg, Please post an excerpt from your report documenting exactly what was conveyed via written word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Greg, show photos. Did you meet the roofer you know and trust at the house to help you evaluate? It's your ass, you should have been there with him taking photos. Without photos, I'm not sure anyone here can give you a decent opinion. If I were an angry homeowner, I'd be on the roof taking lots of pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Sounds like a POS roof. I've found that when they're a POS, I say they are a POS in unmistakable language. Kinda sounds like you said "repair it and it would be fine" to me. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your position, but...... That leaves you hanging out there, compadre. No one with a brain is going to repair a roof, for all the reasons that touching a POS roof run into, i.e., touch it, it's yours. You have a problem, or so it sounds to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 The reason I asked to see your report is there's a lot of different ways to report issues and most of them make everyone feel good but expose your soft underbelly. Here's an actual excerpt from a competitor's report: ROOFING OBSERVATIONS During re-roofing, it appears that the old roofing materials were removed before the installation of the existing roofing materials. Better than average quality materials have been employed as roof coverings. RECOMMENDATIONS / OBSERVATIONS Sloped Roofing ââ⬢ Repair: Repairs to the roofing are needed. Missing roofing material at all of the ridges of the house (cap shingles) should be installed. The cap shingles on the front hip roof were not properly installed and should be capped over. Chimneys ââ⬢ Monitor: The masonry chimney is no longer in service. It could be removed down to a level below the roof line. Gutters & Downspouts ââ⬢ Repair: The gutters require cleaning to avoid spilling roof runoff around the building âââ¬Ã¢â¬Å a potential source of water entry or water damage. ââ⬢ Repair: It is recommended that gutters and downspouts be installed on the middle portion of the house to avoid spilling roof runoff around the building âââ¬Ã¢â¬Å a potential source of water entry or water damage. The black flexible plastic pipe used to drain the front hip roof should be replaced with either ridged pipe or downspout material. I inspected this same house for the same buyer. Here's part of my roofing report: Functionally, this house has no flashings and if it hasn't leaked since the last roof was installed it's only because the right wind/rain condition hasn't occurred yet. The back roof (the gable part) is improperly installed and poorly detailed at the wall intersections. The cap shingles are just plain wrong in every conceivable definition and there are more than a few under driven nails which will work their way through the shingle that covers them. This is the best part of the roof on the house. It may be repairable. It's important that you consult with a competent roofer to discuss installing step and counter flashings and to obtain and correctly install cap shingles. The main house roof (the hip parts) is so poorly installed that I believe it needs to be removed and replaced by a competent competent roofer. The modified bitumen in the built in gutters is poorly installed and is lapped so that water is directed under it rather than over it, the drainage system that directs water to the ground is poorly built, poorly supported, poorly flashed, depends on sealants as a primary water barrier and looks like it may be leaking right now. If it's not leaking now it will once the weather turns cold enough for water to freeze. There are quite a few areas where the eaves are very spongy feeling and the top wall plate has areas of significant rot. The rafter ends at these locations are also rotted. Both chimneys need to be flashed as well. Since it's on my mind, the chimney on the north east wall that serves the master bedroom fireplace probably isn't restorable for use as a chimney (as we discussed on site) It may be sound enough though (after some pointing and repairs) to be used as a chase for a direct vent gas stove exhaust/intake- that way you wouldn't have to poke a hole through a masonry wall It's difficult to estimate the cost for properly repairing the roof on this house but it's well into a âââ¬Ã ânew Volvo" category. All phases of the roof installation are compromised and need repair/ replacement. I'm not saying I'm the greatest inspector or that the other guy is the worst. But if one of us was going to be sued for a new roof I'm pretty sure it would be the other guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I prefer yours, Chad, but I have a question regarding this... "It's difficult to estimate the cost for properly repairing the roof on this house but it's well into a "new Volvo" category." Do you use a sliding scale? Maybe starting at a "rusty Yugo" and running up to a "matched pair of Bugatti Veyrons"? BTW...Happy Thanksgiving all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfSwamp Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Originally posted by Chad Fabry I'm not saying I'm the greatest inspector or that the other guy is the worst. But if one of us was going to be sued for a new roof I'm pretty sure it would be the other guy. Yep. Looks like the other guy has some literacy/logic issues; and, it looks like he relied on halfazz boilerplate, most likely written by somebody who's never seen the roof in question. I love this part: Missing roofing material at all of the ridges of the house (cap shingles) should be installed. I'd pay to watch somebody install missing material. "Hey, bubba. Bring me a pallet of those missing shingles, wouldja?" The other guy's report is typical, I'm sad to say. The good news (maybe) is that the ever-shrinking RE market might just put the halfazz home inspectors out of business. That'd be a good thing, WJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caryseidner Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Originally posted by SonOfSwamp The good news (maybe) is that the ever-shrinking RE market might just put the halfazz home inspectors out of business. That'd be a good thing, WJ That's true....but they'll be back. Or at least a fresh batch of 'em will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Greg, Without some detail, me thinks you are in a bit of trouble. Just my opinion (you ask for it). e/m me or call me if you want. I have had several files that look like your situation and the outcomes were not in favor of the inspector. I think Kurt, Chad and me could give you some objective info if your skin is thick enough! e/m us and see what happens. You do not want to do it on a public forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bernhardt Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I sent over a roofer I know and trust and he stated about 20% of the shingles needs to be glued down and the roof should be serviceable for another 5 to 10 years. A few shingles is not 20%. A few shingles are 3 or 4. 20% is definitely a call for an HI to recommend replacing the roof, the sooner the better, IMO. If the buyer then goes out and talks to a bunch of roofers and then decides himself to risk repair, then fine, it's his problem. Chris, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Originally posted by Les You do not want to do it on a public forum. Feel free to give me a call, as well, Greg. I don't want to say too much on a public forum, but seeing as how we're in the same area, I think I can help out. 859-268-0262 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Greg, if your area is like mine, roofers who say a roof is shot are lying 9 out of 10 times. They sell roofs. They would much rather replace a roof than repair one. If the guy you trust says it can go much farther with minor repairs, he's probably right, but you may be exposed based on what language you used in the report. Good luck. Brian G. The No-Fun Zone [:-headach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jones Posted December 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Originally posted by Brian G Greg, if your area is like mine, roofers who say a roof is shot are lying 9 out of 10 times. They sell roofs. They would much rather replace a roof than repair one. If the guy you trust says it can go much farther with minor repairs, he's probably right, but you may be exposed based on what language you used in the report. Good luck. Brian G. The No-Fun Zone [:-headach Thanks for your input. I just had a roofing expert take a look at the roof and he states the roof doesn't need replacing. Only about 1% of the shingles are raised with nail pops as I stated in my report. He states the high wind did not damage the roof and this in itself proves the roof did not need replacing since the wind didn't affect it. Hopefully I can work something out with the client. My language will change, lesson learned after 10 years of inspecting. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acorn Home Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Guys, I am a relatively new inspector. So go easy... I did an inspection a few weeks ago. Found some shingles curling and peeling. My commenst were "Found some shingles peeling on North side of the roof. Have a roofer evaluate and repair/replace as needed." I know most of the guys here don't like 'checklist' type reports but that's what I have (with 'comments' section as the bottom of the report). Wouldn't keeping the recommendations simple be better? I have seen reports where inspectors are stating how to perform repairs. Isn't that beyond the scope? I prefer to say that there is a problem, have it evaluated/fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Originally posted by Acorn Home I did an inspection a few weeks ago. Found some shingles curling and peeling. My commenst were "Found some shingles peeling on North side of the roof. Have a roofer evaluate and repair/replace as needed." Couldn't get prettier than that...IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Couldn't get prettier than that...IMHO. Hmm, I disagree with Jerry. If there are shingles that are curling and peeling the house probably needs a roof. I'd at least mention that possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Why say "found some damaged shingles"? Why not say "There are damaged shingles"? Why have a roofer evaluate it? A previous post illustrates what happens when roofers get involved, i.e., it all gets confused. Why not tell them it needs repair, and to have a roofer provide a repair proposal/estimate to determine what the (necessary) repair will cost? More active, puts responsibility on them, inspector is unequivocal, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Dang, That thar Kurt feller be right clever! ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 thanx..... And, take pictures of the damaged shingles, include them in the report, and draw red circles and arrows pointing at everything. Minimal commentary, directives, pictures and arrows. Can't be misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Originally posted by Chad Fabry Couldn't get prettier than that...IMHO. Hmm, I disagree with Jerry. If there are shingles that are curling and peeling the house probably needs a roof. I'd at least mention that possibility. What part of "repair or replace as needed" is at odds with what you're saying? I think he did a great job reporting (slight inspector-speak aside). Kept it simple - bad shingles, have a roofer check/evaulaute, and have the shingles repaired or replaced as deemed necessary by the expert. 'Course, he said it in fewer words and still said the same dang thing ... all the better IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Why have a roofer evaluate it? To see if the shingles warrant repair or replacement. Why not tell them it needs repair... 'Cause the roof covering might need replacing (see above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acorn Home Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Because if they needed replacement instead of repair, it'd be me paying for the replacement. Why put yourself in that position. During our conversation, I showed the buyer what the problem areas were. I even told them it's very minor. If they wished and felt comfortable going on the roof, they could probably put adhesive down themselves. But on my report, only carefully chosen words go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Acorn... In this case, I think ya did fine. Curled/peeling shinlges might be able to be fixed (hand-sealed), or they might need replacing. I agree, punt to the expert (yes, a roofer is, at least should be and is in many cases I've seen, an expert). This is (much) different, though, than say a cracked heat exchanger. Then I'd agree with Kurt's thought...why *evaluate* ? Just report the CO problem posed by same, and have the furnace replaced, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Originally posted by Jerry Simon Why have a roofer evaluate it? To see if the shingles warrant repair or replacement. Didn't we just see what happens when roofers come out to evaluate roofing in the initial post? Why tell them it needs repair........ 'Cause the roof covering might need replacing (see above). You're needling. Stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Didn't we just see what happens when roofers come out to evaluate roofing in the initial post? Yeah, but in this case that would have been fine since Acorn didn't say to *repair* as did the initial poster. Acorn spotted a problem and called for an expert to say what needs doin'. I ain't needling. You're slow, I'm slow, we're all slow together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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