bay_dragon Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I have a brand new Trane York Affinity high efficiency furnace. It seems to be a nice unit except I think the installer put it in wrong. In cold weather the intake pipe freezes up with condensate from the exhaust gasses. I also think he installed the pipes too close to my dryer vent. Is there a specification about proximity to these vents? Also the pipes are just plumbed out the side wall with no vent covers. Is this a normal installation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 The exhaust pipe may have to be insulated. The intake pipe should not freeze. They should have a termination kit on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay_dragon Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Originally posted by energy star The exhaust pipe may have to be insulated. The intake pipe should not freeze. They should have a termination kit on them. What does a termination kit look like? Can I buy one myself? I don't trust this dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 well, you should have been left an instruction booklet? But when PVC venting started to take hold the kit was basically just a PVC 90 on each pipe. One turned down and on turned up with a 90 on it. Now everyone uses a concentric type. http://www.htproducts.com/literature/lp-166.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay_dragon Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Originally posted by energy star well, you should have been left an instruction booklet? But when PVC venting started to take hold the kit was basically just a PVC 90 on each pipe. One turned down and on turned up with a 90 on it. Now everyone uses a concentric type. http://www.htproducts.com/literature/lp-166.pdf No instruction booklet was left. Figures. I did find a few kits on the internet. Another question. Should my inside pipes be insulated? The intake produces a fair amount of condensation in cold weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yes, insulate. It should be the exhaust that produces the most condensate. That is the one that should be insulated. Make sure it is pitched towards the furnace. (Towards) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay_dragon Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thanks for the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 No prob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 You don't need to insulate the exhaust pipe. The problem is the moist exhaust gas is coming back into the intake from the where it discharges outside. It starts to freeze, the fresh air gets cut off and the furnaces stops running. Is there a screen on the fresh air intake? If it is a separate exhaust and intake a simple fix would be to put a 90 degree elbow on the exhaust and intake air, where it exits the home, and turn them so that they are pointing away from each other. This will divert the exhaust gas from the intake. You don't need to glue them in place, just put them on, as stated, and see how it works. You should get in touch with you local Trane factory rep (found though an authroized Trane HVAC company). If it is installed wrong, and it sounds like it, the installing contractor needs to correct their mistake, no charge. Right now the vicinity of the dryer vent is the least of your worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 You have a good point. But insulating is in the instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay_dragon Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yes that's exactly what's happening. The condensation I was referring to was on the outside of the intake pipe. At -40c the pipe temperature is enough to build up condensation on the outside of the pipe. Then of course it drips all over my basement floor. A logical solution (at least to me) is to have the vent pipes inside each other, a double wall configuration with the exhaust gases running on the outside and the intake air on the inside, being warmed up in the process. Just thinking out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 The link I posted is a nice set-up. At that temp, I would move! if infact that is the correct temp (-40) he stated, it does need to be insulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Originally posted by energy star You have a good point. But insulating is in the instructions. I thought you only had to insulate it if the flue was in an unconditioned area, and especially an attic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yes I thought it passed through an unconditioned space. He also needs to seal the vent penetration better, capillary action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Originally posted by bay_dragon Yes that's exactly what's happening. The condensation I was referring to was on the outside of the intake pipe. At -40c the pipe temperature is enough to build up condensation on the outside of the pipe. Then of course it drips all over my basement floor. A logical solution (at least to me) is to have the vent pipes inside each other, a double wall configuration with the exhaust gases running on the outside and the intake air on the inside, being warmed up in the process. Just thinking out loud. Ask for your installation manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 What is the temp of the area where the condensation is occuring? What is the temp outside? Basement temp? Is basement conditioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Originally posted by Bain Originally posted by energy star You have a good point. But insulating is in the instructions. I thought you only had to insulate it if the flue was in an unconditioned area, and especially an attic? That's me thinking everyone has a basement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 -40c? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay_dragon Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Originally posted by energy star -40c? yes -40c. On Sunday it was -53c with the wind chill. Seriously. The condensation is the basement inside air condensing on the cold intake pipe for about the first ten feet or so. Soon I suppose there will be no friggin water in the air at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Manor Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Originally posted by energy star -40c? .... for reference -40C = -40f -Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Originally posted by bay_dragon Originally posted by energy star -40c? yes -40c. On Sunday it was -53c with the wind chill. Seriously. The condensation is the basement inside air condensing on the cold intake pipe for about the first ten feet or so. Soon I suppose there will be no friggin water in the air at all! One other thought. If the air intake for the furnace is close to the laundry dryer vent this could be exacerbating the situation. The fresh air intake of the furnace is pulling in warm moist air from the dryer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Take a pic for us. Insulate the pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Originally posted by Brad Manor Originally posted by energy star -40c? .... for reference -40C = -40f -Brad Yes. I know. To cold for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay_dragon Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Sorry I misspoke. My furnace is a York Affinity 9.C modulating unit and not a Trane mentioned in the subject line. I will take a picture and post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy star Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 How well are the pipes sealed to the outside? If you have a full basement and the temp is 60 degrees in that basement, I really don't care all that much what is around it. Taking air that is -40 outside and immediately sucking into a space that is 60 degrees (or even lower) that pipe is going to produce water. Cold ALWAYS produces water (condesate) ON THE WARM SIDE. Try this, go grab a nice cold can of soda out of the fridge, and set it on the kitchen table. Wait a few and watch water droplets appear on the outside of the can and drip down on the table. Just like that cold intake pipe passing through the warmer basement. Or, go out into your shop and grab a PVC fitting, toss it in the freezer (thatââ¬â¢s typically zero F) let it stay in there 15 minutes, take it out set it on the table, you will see tiny droplets of water appear, again just like your pipe dripping on the floor. You may even have a leak around the wall penetrations. I would hope not at those temps. Sometimes with an oil burner thatââ¬â¢s a direct vent, with an intake pipe for combustion air going directly to the burner will cause it to shut down because of the extreme delta T. Insulating that pipe will solve the problem. -40 degrees going into 60 degrees is going to cause some condensate on the pipe, and then drip on the basement floor. just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.