Brian G Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by Gerry Beaumont Brian, what is relevent or not is very subjective.... Agreed, at least to a point. ...yes theroretically some one could memorize all the answers, good luck to them, I have audited every question on this exam (hundreds of questions) and I still can't ace it. I was thinking more along the lines of simply copying the questions and looking up the answers, but if you have hundreds of rotating questions, that's what I was driving at. Brian, you know me better than to drag me into a Nick discussion, he is a big boy and can speak for himself, if he wishes to. All I can tell you is that this is a NACHI education project, and Nick has had no inputon it (nor did he wish to have) Fair enough, forget Nick. But you still haven't said what YOU think of the idea of compling these questions in an effort to improve the chances of passing for a particular group. Brian G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Beaumont Posted August 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Brian,I really think the whole issue is moot, as inspectors regardless of affiliation we all inspect about the same stuff in roughly the same way, so any test of knowledge is going to focus on the same areas, and have pretty much similar questions and answers. I like every other trainer have thousands of questions on hand from various sources, some I know have been used on NHIE, I took that exam myself quite some time ago and you can bet that I wrote down after the event as many questions as I could remember, that sure as hell don't mean that I had them down verbatim, there are also many supposed NHIE question sets floating about on the internet (try Ebay). I have to say from a personal stand point that if I had access to the NHIE pool I would not want to allow anyone to see them, helping members understand their weaknesses ad pointing them in the direction where they can get more knowledge is what I'm all about, Trying to invalidate NHIE is pointless, even if I could give someone all the answers what does that prove ?? it would not make them good inspectors, it would only help them pass a one time exam, my interest is in helping members develop their skills and make our members the best that there are out there. That and only that makes us a strong organization IMHO. Regards Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by Gerry Beaumont ...as inspectors regardless of affiliation we all inspect about the same stuff in roughly the same way, so any test of knowledge is going to focus on the same areas, and have pretty much similar questions and answers. Agreed, again to a point.I have to say from a personal stand point that if I had access to the NHIE pool I would not want to allow anyone to see them. Helping members understand their weaknesses ad pointing them in the direction where they can get more knowledge is what I'm all about. Trying to invalidate NHIE is pointless. Even if I could give someone all the answers what does that prove ?? It would not make them good inspectors, it would only help them pass a one time exam. My interest is in helping members develop their skills and make our members the best that there are out there. That and only that makes us a strong organization (IMHO).Thank you Gerry, agreed on all counts. Brian G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisprickett Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 I took the test, and also got a 68. I was very weak in boilers and fireplaces, which are few and far between in AZ. All-in-all not a bad test, but there were about 10 questions that weren't vey clear (to me). It might be a good idea (in the beta-test) to show the taker which question he/she got wrong. This would give the taker an opportunity to check the correctness of the answer. FWIW, I scored much higher on the NHIE, but of course, that was after taking time to bone up on my weak areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Beaumont Posted August 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Hi Chris, Thanks for the feed back, I can see why you're weak on boilers & fireplaces, I guess there's not much call for them in AZ. I do study all the question responces to weed out underperforming questions, and if need be re-write them or in some cases change the available answers, this will be an on going process through the life of the exam. Thanks again Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by chrisprickett I took the test, and also got a 68. Holy Cow, I'm right up there with Crazy Chris Prickett! I think the regional approach is interesting, but may be problematic as well. For all I know there are large pockets of oil-burners within 100 miles of me, just none here. Then there's the way people move around these days. If one passed a regionally adjusted exam in Texas, would he still be qualified if he moved to Maine? Food for future thought Gerry. Since you agree with me about code certification, why not consider making certification in the IRC a requirement for the "Master" title (somewhere down the road)? Leave the code testing to the people who write it and devote your HI exam to investigation, diagnostic, and reporting issues. Throw in a worthy Standards & Ethics exam and you would have a package few could argue with. I have to admit the "Master" title still bothers me though. A hot shot could accomplish all of the above in the course of a year or two, yet still be rather inexperienced. Oh well, I stick to my original statement... Anything that raises the bar is welcomed. Brian G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 CREIA is using IRC testing for combination dwelling inspector to qualify members for CNCS (CREIA New Construction Specialist) which recognizes one as adequately versed to perform new construction phase inspections. Our new CREIA chapter was formed with the idea of doing away with meetings that go over chapter biz until half the room pukes and speakers that peddle duct tape in favor of systematic PowerPoint presentations designed to teach the IRC from beginning to end. ASHI now has qualified certified CREIA members for membership in ASHI with no additional testing beyond what they have achieved through CREIA. At the last BOD meeting CREIA reciprocated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieb Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Brian, Shame on you. I took the test in under 25 minutes and scored 95. The test seemed woefully lacking in substance. A large persentage had one throw away answer. Like Chris, I believe it would be helpful to review the individual answers. The test did point out my need to review safety issues. Now to figure out which ones! Charlie www.alphainspection.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by charlieb I took the test in under 25 minutes and scored 95. Damn Charlie, that's some fancy guessing. Remind me not to play Battle Ship with you. [:-dev3][][:-dev3] Brian G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by crusty ASHI now has qualified certified CREIA members for membership in ASHI with no additional testing beyond what they have achieved through CREIA. At the last BOD meeting CREIA reciprocated.That's right sports fans. Members of CREIA and TAREI need not take the NHIE to become ASHI members. This may start a new thread, but it is a bit of a bombshell that most ASHI members are not aware of and I thought it merited highlighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieb Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Guess my .......toe, I know the ones I was unsure of and they were few. The version I took was not that tough. Bow up the bar is set Brian[:-irked][:-mischievous][:-irked] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by charlieb Bow up the bar is set BrianBetter be careful with the "bar" talk around us ex-drinkers. For a second I thought I saw "Belly up, the bar is open Brian". [:-dev3][][:-dev3] Brian G. If I Relapse Now It's Charlie's Fault [:-drunk] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Beaumont Posted August 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Hi to all, Charlie, not to doubt your abilities, but which exam did you take, was it our existing entry level exam, or the exam link in this thread. People have complained before that our entry level exam can be done in 15-20 mins in the 90's, but no one has been able to do that on the new one (me included). If you did indeed do the new one at 95% in 17 mins my hat is off to you. Regards Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfeldt Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Gary, please add me to the safe access list. matt@prelook.com thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfeldt Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 It took me 25 minutes and I scored a 72. Having said that, I received a 0 in the fireplace category. Overall, it is not bad. A few suggestions: 1. If you are going to include pictures they should be of better quality. 2. If I hadn't been moderating the forum I would not have known that some questions have multiple answers. 3. Typos on some questions. 4. Notify users which answers are incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Beaumont Posted August 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Hi Matt, Thanks for the feed back, as someone else said you don't see too many fireplaces in AZ, 1)I am a little limited on picture size due to noty wanting to slow the system down too much for those on dial up connections, but I will be changing the picture questions anyway as these are a new development. 2)I hope that I've included in the question the fact that some have multiple answers (but I will go back and check). 3)Typo's yes, everytime I look at it I find one or 2 more. 4) I am undecided on telling members which they got wrong, on balance I am against it. Regards Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by bradfeldt It took me 25 minutes and I scored a 72.Bested by a desert-dwelling desk jockey! Oh the humiliation! [:-bonc01] (Good show Matt) Brian G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieb Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Gerry, I did not use the link. Went to the website. Did NACHI see the need for a test vs a quick quiz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Beaumont Posted August 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Hi to all, Just a reminder to anyone who has not yet had a go at this, and wants to the link will only be active until tomorrow night, I will post the stats on this exam over the weekend. Again many thanks to those who have taken the time to take this and especially those who have taken the time to offer suggestions for it's improvement. Regards Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Beaumont Posted August 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Hi Charlie, I wondered if that's what you did, yes we the current exam that you took is just our entry level exam for new members and those new to our profession, we are also developing a second exam that is more of a test of existing inspectors knowledge, but it is through this link only: http://exams.nachi.org/exambeta/ You can use the same user ID and password that you used for the other exam. Regards Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Come on all you stout hearts, where are those test scores? [:-graduate][:-dev3] Brian G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 40 minutes while eating pizza and a score of 76. Boilers and radon are totally irrelevant to the biz out here, I claim total ignorance and irrelevance on at least 12 questions. Some answer selections are extremely transparent. One question asked me to identify a picture that was not there. 2 questions had no right answer. The pics in the other 3 were too bad to make out. About 25% of the questions belong on an entry level, not advanced exam. I took the CREIA master certified exam yesterday. 150 questions 1 hour 10 minutes scored 79% with no studying if that gives you a comparison. Ditching the irrelevant questions and weighting the score appropriately your test would yield up about 85-88% for me, my best guess, but we'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 I took the test at Gerry's request a few weeks ago. First time through I had a 79 but failed it because my performance in fireplaces and chimneys was dismal. If there are burn marks on the carpet I suggest the hearth may be too small. I've taken it two more times since then and scored in the low to mid 80's and passed, but just barely, those two times. I consider structure to be one of my strongest areas, but scored as low as 66 and never got a 100 in that category. I thought the "how many cubic feet for an alcove question was borderline ludicrous, and until someone brought it up here, I didn't know that multiple answers were required for some questions and in a state of confusion was choosing the one answer I thought most relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Beaumont Posted August 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Hi to all, Many thanks to all the users of this board who had a go at this exam and for the suggestions that you all made, also thanks for the professional courtesy shown here, I was fully expecting at least one fist fight, and Jimmy having to work overtime to keep order.[] OK, now that we have pulled the non-member link to this exam down, its time to have a look at the results from the last round of "beta" testing, here are the basic stats. Basic Statistic Total Exams Taken: 171 Average Grade: 56.64% Number of Exams Passed: 54 Average Passing Grade: 78.91% Number of Exams Failed: 117 Average Failing Grade: 46.37% This equates to a 31% pass rate, which I concider to be quite good on the basis that not one had studied to take this exam, like you would for say a state license exam (I bet if we charged $195:00 a pop for it the pass rate would go up)id="green"> As a sidebar issue, those who approached me through this board and were given a generic ID & password (by the way they were all thesame ID so I don't know who did what) scored an average 71% with the scores falling between 51% and 87% id="green"> Grade Brackets Grade Bracket Total Average Scores of 1 to 10 24 14.04% Scores of 11 to 20 1 0.58% Scores of 21 to 30 2 1.17% Scores of 31 to 40 2 1.17% Scores of 41 to 50 9 5.26% Scores of 51 to 60 29 16.96% Scores of 61 to 70 56 32.75% Scores of 71 to 80 29 16.96% Scores of 81 to 90 12 7.02% Scores of 91 to 100 7 4.09% As you can see from the grade bracket averages nearly 33% of takers were within 10% of passing. I believe that with some additional study that 60% of respondents would pass this exam. id="green"> Category Stats Interiors: 53% correct on average Electrical: 55% correct on average Structural: 47% correct on average Roofs and Attics: 62% correct on average Plumbing: 65% correct on average Heating and Cooling: 55% correct on average Exteriors: 59% correct on average Environmental: 58% correct on average Ventilation and Insulation: 61% correct on average Fireplaces, Stoves and Chimneys: 46% correct on average. I have highlighted the "problem areas" in terms of topics, the structures area is a cause for concern especially as we know from insurance stats that this is the biggest area of claims against HI's. And I am disapointed with the scores in the Chimney areas, as this has major safety issues, however I do recognize that chimneys and fireplaces can be somewhat a regional thingid="green">. I again would like to thank all who have taken this exam, and offered opinions on its style and performance, your suggestions and comments have ben most helpfull, and have been listened to. Regards Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scdowns Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 My goodness! Last week was my first visit to this website and I was so excited, as well as being excited about finding NACHI. After reading this thread, I would just like to know one thing...maybe two...are we saying NACHI is NOT a credible organization? Or, is there some sort of jealousy/shutout in the Association business? I would really like to know! From a Concerned Inspector, who visited NACHI and thought it a great place to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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