New NACHI exam

[ozofprev]

I could smell this coming back at my OMG post.

Companies that make tests often make psychometric tests. The NHIE is a test that has been carefully developed and delivered, but it is not psychometric - nor should it be.

There are two types of psychometric tests. One is meant to measure personality and psychology for employers that need honesty, integrity and certain character. The other type measures general aptitude - spatial, quantifiable, verbal, etc.

Pschometric tests are used as a means to select - from a group of people - those who should have the character and/or aptitude needed for entry into a school or profession.

The NHIE doesn't need to measure either of those things. After passing the NHIE, you aren't an apprentice - you do actual home inspections. You are supposed to have a certain base level of actual knowledge.

But what base level can someone really have? There is no formal curriculum or apprenticeship on which to base a test. What we have instead is actually worse than nothing. The tests used to measure home inspectors today are all pathetic. Until we have some formal training path or curriculum, pathetic is all we will ever have.

[dspec]

Originally posted by chicago

My test score at the state exam was to my understanding developed by ASHI and I had no problem with the test.

When I joined NACHI the questions were tougher.Enough said.Lets not go there.

I agree with Bob E.

I took the NACHI on-line quiz prior to taking any HI courses, at that time I also thought the NACHI questions were tough , after completing apx 100 hrs of HI class room training the NHIE exam was no problem.

[hausdok]

Hi,

I know some guys who took the old ASHI test years ago and took the NHIE exam after it came out. I was told that the difference is like night and day. Since I wasn't around to take the old ASHI test back "in the day" I don't know how accurate that statement is, but it's beem my understanding that whenever EBPHI redoes the test that they've invited people from other organizations to take part in the process.

I've heard that AII, NAHI, ASHI and NACHI guys have all been invited to participate, but that NACHI refused to send anyone. Can anyone (Scott or Joe?) speak to the accuracy of that or is that just another product of the inspector rumor mill.

Come'on Noel, I know you lurk out there. How about jumping in on this one?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

Originally posted by ozofprev

But what base level can someone really have? There is no formal curriculum or apprenticeship on which to base a test. What we have instead is actually worse than nothing. The tests used to measure home inspectors today are all pathetic. Until we have some formal training path or curriculum, pathetic is all we will ever have.

I'm not quite so negative. I don't disagree that the tests are pathetic, but this whole thing that we do is still very much unsettled.

I am not going to complain about no curriculum or apprenticeship program upon which to base a test. I'm instead excited about being in a profession @ a time and place where I might have the opportunity to steer it in good directions.

Whether or not the NHIE meets your specific definition of psychometric validation is not a particular concern. The larger issue, for me anyway, is there are verifiable procedures and operations set in place @ EBPHI for establishing a satisfactory test.

Are we going to wait for a university to provide a curriculum so we can have a test? Are we going to wait until someone develops the ultimate apprenticeship program so we can then have a test? We will be waiting a long time.

The test, by itself, is of course an inadequate means of determining competency. Should that restrict us from attempting to develop a satisfactory test?

[Scottpat]

Originally posted by hausdok

Hi,

I know some guys who took the old ASHI test years ago and took the NHIE exam after it came out. I was told that the difference is like night and day. Since I wasn't around to take the old ASHI test back "in the day" I don't know how accurate that statement is, but it's beem my understanding that whenever EBPHI redoes the test that they've invited people from other organizations to take part in the process.

I've heard that AII, NAHI, ASHI and NACHI guys have all been invited to participate, but that NACHI refused to send anyone. Can anyone (Scott or Joe?) speak to the accuracy of that or is that just another product of the inspector rumor mill.

Come'on Noel, I know you lurk out there. How about jumping in on this one?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

No it was NAHI that refused to tell their membership about the opportunity for their members to participate in the process. NAHI also would not publicize to their membership the openings for a new board member to the EBPHI Board of Directors.

Now with that said, we still had 3 NAHI members who participated. They found out through other channels, like TIJ!

[ozofprev]

Originally posted by kurt

I'm not quite so negative. I don't disagree that the tests are pathetic, but this whole thing that we do is still very much unsettled.

Yes, I'm negative. Anybody can be a home inspector. Anybody can pass our tests.

I am not going to complain about no curriculum or apprenticeship program upon which to base a test. I'm instead excited about being in a profession @ a time and place where I might have the opportunity to steer it in good directions.

Good luck

Whether or not the NHIE meets your specific definition of psychometric validation is not a particular concern. The larger issue, for me anyway, is there are verifiable procedures and operations set in place @ EBPHI for establishing a satisfactory test.

EBPHI can write well-formed questions and statistically test their tests, but what are they testing specifically?

We can say we are generalists, but if we don't consistently show our clients that we understand the many details that can cost them a fortune to fix, or cause them physical harm, what good are we? Our tests should demand much greater depth of knowledge.

I recently completed the EBPHI survey. One of my recommendations requires that a writing sample be provided. A test can at least weed out the illiterates.

Are we going to wait for a university to provide a curriculum so we can have a test? Are we going to wait until someone develops the ultimate apprenticeship program so we can then have a test? We will be waiting a long time.

Well, it wouldn't take much to add an inspection emphasis to existing building science or architecture curricula.

In NY, there are many who believe you should have to be a PE - which, IMO, is ridiculous since many PEs have no practical experience relevant to home inspection.

The test, by itself, is of course an inadequate means of determining competency. Should that restrict us from attempting to develop a satisfactory test?

That's a circular argument. If a satisfactory test is developed, then it will be a reasonably adequate means of determing competency.

[kurt]

It might be a circular argument, but I thought it was a question(?).

Should all these things you detest prevent us from attempting to make things better? (How's that?)

When I need the cat to get in line, I provide it w/what it needs, and it follows where I want (or need) it to go. I think your emphasis on the cat herd is entirely misplaced. Backwards thinking doesn't move folks forward, nor does negativity for the sake of being negative.

The NHIE is primarily focused on SOP's, or at least, that is my understanding. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Yes, the SOP's are anemic, but that is another topic.

Yes, we need a portion of the exam to display competence w/written communication. Unfortuneately, political and economic forces well beyond anything the lowly HI lobby can counter holds sway. We're not going to get that into the cards until a lot of other building blocks are in place.

An inspection emphasis could be attached to a building science or architectural course. That, my friend, is the dream of dreams, and I'm working on it w/a couple folks. It's less than baby steps @ this point, but things take time.

I'm mildly surprised @ the extreme negativism you're showing. You're one of the bright spots in the future of this profession. I'm as argumentative as anyone, probably more so, but it's not in service of negativity; it's to develop discourse & test directions & ideas.

I'm optimistic. 25 years ago, I had to first explain to folks what I did, and why it was necessary, before I could even begin to sell them on the idea. We've gone from a non-entity to a recognized service. We are still not a profession, but in my tiny little corner, I've managed to make my operation professional, and minor ripples extend outward in all directions. The fact that most folks are still running around filling out check boxes & being the realtors monkey is not my concern; attempting to challenge an existing paradigm on it's own turf is a battle lost before it begins. Things have changed, and they will continue to do so.

This ain't a bag race; hell, it's not even a marathon. I'm pretty much planning on running until I die.

[ozofprev]

Thanks, I needed that![]

You're correct, Kurt. People like you keep the glass half full. That's what the world needs. Rough week; sorry.

[Les]

Yet another reason for a TIJ get-together: Watch Gary and Kurt M arm rassle! I've never laid eyes on Gary, but I know Kurt M to be fiesty! $3.80 on Kurt, even money.

[kurt]

Naaaah, Gary's a brother.

We balance each other out from time to time.

[ozofprev]

Originally posted by kurt

Naaaah, Gary's a brother.

We balance each other out from time to time.

Ain't that the truth.

$3.80??? Les, you must be having a great year.

[Justin Tyme]

NACHI believes that they have an exam! That makes it 'Psychosematically valid'. [:-dunce]

Plain and simple! [:-crazy]

[chicago]

And what kind of exam did you need for entry into whatever you do Justin.

Take the test and come back with your score.

[kurt]

Yes. What Bob said.

This is volatile stuff, worthy of respect.

[JerryM]

I neither need nor desire to explain and/or defend what I classify as a classic psychometrically valid exam. The only thing I will attempt to explain is that if you have ever been to Disney Land I’m sure you’ve noticed those horizontal bars at a certain height where the line forms to get on the ride. If you can walk under those bars without hitting your head you didn’t ride, but if your head hits it you got on.

Basically both NHIE and CREIA’s entry exams are set up in the same way to help determine if an entry level person’s knowledge about conducting a home inspection is adequate. Most entry level folks walk cleanly under the bar their first attempt, but after study many are able to retake and pass on their second attempt. Having worked on CREIA’s exams since 1999 and being very familiar with the NHIE exam it’s my opinion they’re the top two exams in the home inspection industry from what I have seen. ASHI did the smart thing in divorcing themselves from a national entry level exam for home inspectors otherwise I don’t think many states would adopt any entry level exam from any inspector association if they where licensing their Home Inspectors? BTW, if anyone thinks writing a psychometrically valid exam is simple, well – God love em…………………...

[Lewis Capaul]

It really doesn't matter what type of Exam interNachi has, as long as anyone can go on-line and take it under anyone else's name, the exam is meaningless and of no value.

[SonOfSwamp]

For years, I've promoted the idea that would-be HIs should have to pass the lowly GED. Those who pass would show that they have the intellectual firepower of a high school dropout with enough gumption to get his HS diploma.

Before they ever fire up a flashlight, HIs should be able to read, write, reason and learn at least as well as an high-school graduate with a D-minus average.

Sadly, many don't.

WJ