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Electrical opinions wanted


Jeff Remas
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*Hot tub installed outdoors.

*50A GFCI breaker in main panel inside the home.

*6/3 NM runs inside the home and terminated inside a properly placed disconnect within site of the hot tub.

*From the disco 6/3 UF is properly protected and runs to the hot tub.

All wiring is correct and the hot tub functions.

Is there a problem with this install?

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Not a bonding issue either. Look at 680.21(A) (1)

For those who don't have an NEC handy, here's what it says:

680.21 Motors.

(A) Wiring Methods.

(1) General. The branch circuits for pool-associated motors shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, reinforced thermosetting resin conduit, or Type MC cable listed for the location. Other wiring methods and materials shall be permitted in specific locations or applications as covered in this section. Any wiring method employed shall contain an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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Only the UF cable between the disconnect and the hot tub is in violation.

680.42 © permits NM within the dwelling to be used. As the wiring method from the disconnect to the tub is not 'cord & plug' connected, yet measures over 6', 680.21 (A) (1) applies to that particular run of wiring.

FYI: 680.42 © Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations. In the interior of a one family dwelling or in the interior of another building or structure associated with the one family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating and control loads that are part of a self contained spa or hot tub or a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly..... NEC 2008

Marc

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You got it Marc. Good research.

This actually came up during a code inspection of a hot tub. At first they ran 8/3NM to the disco then 8/3UF from the disco to the hot tub. I failed the installation because it was a 50A circuit on a 50A OCPD and told them that they need to run 6/3 and that they need to run THWN from the disco which at that point they can use 8 awg copper due to the rating of THWN. When I went back, they changed the NM inside the house to 6/3 but used 6/3 UF from the disco to the hot tub in conduit. The electricians have been arguing with me on every part of this.

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I'm still wondering about the "all wiring is correct" in #1........(?)......

I'm still trying to figure out how the disco is germane to the question. Are there clearance requirements between hot tubs and mirror balls?

Who said it was germane? A question about the disco was answered.

At least you learned something today.

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How far away is the outside disconnect from the hot tub? Also is it a three wire older hot tub or a new one Four wire?

Disconnect is 7 feet from the hot tub so not an issue.

It is a newer 4 wire being fed by a 4 wire so not an issue.

Where is the issue?

You wrote before 3 wire. and the fact that it is seven feet still makes it a problem.

Also when asking trick questions you might include the install date.

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I'm still wondering about the "all wiring is correct" in #1........(?)......

I'm still trying to figure out how the disco is germane to the question. Are there clearance requirements between hot tubs and mirror balls?

Who said it was germane? A question about the disco was answered.

At least you learned something today.

I suppose it'll always be a fact of life that some people just don't get me . . .

As far as learning something today, I'm always up for that, however I had firsthand experience with a similar situation last Spring. My oldest friend installed a swimming pool and the electrical inspector wouldn't sign off on the job due to issues that have been raised in this thread.

The electrician used the, "I've always done it this way defense," but ultimately chomped on the bullet and reworked things so they were compliant.

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