moisture in attic

[Bain]

hamsters..aquariums.....and Loki

Absolutely, my friend. And just so you know, I'm not assuming anything, which is why the filter is unplugged. I don't think there's any kind of a sensor. I think the manufacturer simply claims the filter is safe. And as we know, sometimes those folks are on the level, and sometimes they aren't.

To borrow from Barry O., obtaining a clear understanding of how safe or unsafe the chemistry is . . . well, that's a little above my pay grade. I'm going to take a closer look at RGF's literature when I have time and see if I can make any sense out of what they have to say.

And by the way, thanks to Mikey O. This conversation wouldn't have been initiated, and I wouldn't have been warned, if not for him.

[hausdok]

Hi,

I wonder if Caoimhín can shed any light on this? Think I'll shoot him an email and ask him.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[John Kogel]

Side note: that flex duct vent pipe (heat duct) is most likely not allowed for that use.

Thanks, Brandon. No restrictions that I know of.

BTW, I'd rather see that flex duct than the alternative - white accordion pipe flopped out on the attic floor. [:0]

[Caoimhín P. Connell]

Good Evening, Gents!

From an Industrial Hygienist’s perspective, I am familiar with ozone generators, and I have been involved in a couple of cases where the introduction of ozone permanently damaged the structures involved.

First of all, let’s consider the following: Hydrogen cyanide (HCN), the stuff of gas chambers and chemical warfare. I think we can all agree that HCN is really nasty stuff. REALLY nasty. So nasty in fact that the National Institutes of Occupational Safety and Health lists the IDLH level (immediately dangerous to life and health) as 50 parts of HCN per one million parts of air (50 ppm); and NIOSH has set the REL (recommended exposure limit) at 4.7 ppm. The Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) says that a US employee cannot be exposed to greater than 10 ppm HCN as an 8-hour time weighted average. So it’s really nasty stuff.

But not nearly as nasty as ozone. Whereas the deadly gas, HCN, is immediately dangerous to life and health at 50 ppm, ozone is immediately dangerous to life and health at FIVE ppm (5.0). Whereas OSHA says, aw shucks, you can expose your employee to toxic gas chamber gas at no more than 10 ppm each day, OSHA also says that you can only expose your employee to one TENTH of one ppm (0.1 ppm) during the same time period (this is called the “Permissible Exposure Limit"); BTW, an employer can do jail time if they knowingly violate this Federal Standard. One of my professional organizations, the ACGIH (American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists) says that OSHA is WAY off base and that their limit is too high! And that an employee should not be exposed to any greater than 0.05 ppm for the same time frame (this is called the TLV – Threshold Limit Value). The Germans say that ACGIH is WAY off base and there is no acceptable concentration of ozone to which an employee should be exposed (called the M.A.K.)

Compared to ozone, though, cyanide gas, the gas used in chemical warfare and used in the US to execute criminals in the gas chamber, is child’s play. Cyanide is just kinda nasty, but ozone? Ozone is REALLY nasty. And somebody wants to put it in your house?

According to The American Society of Heating Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) Ventilation for Acceptable Indoor Air Quality - ANSI/ASHRAE Standard 62.1-2007 we see that in Section 6.2.1.2, ASHRAE standard requires REMOVING ozone from the indoor air when the concentration reaches 0.16 ppm.

And the story just gets worse from there….

I mentioned at the beginning of this post that I have been involved in a couple of projects where structures were damaged because of the introduction of ozone into the structure. Here’s what happened – there is a nut-job in my area who is a complete kook (that’s not ad hominem, that’s actually fairly objective). I’ve opposed him on several cases (in the latest case, he told the homeowners that if their house contained so much as ONE mould spore, they needed to evacuate their home immediately). He now moderates an Indoor Air Quality board and is on the IIRC Committee. In any event, his solution to correcting problems was to intentionally fill people’s houses with high levels of ozone to cure all ills – ozone to fix mould problems and other issues. Problem is, not only does ozone attack and destroy peoples lungs and eyes and mucus membranes and the like, it also attacks their carpets, furniture, Rembrandts, furs, books, and … well pretty much everything else. Frequently breaking down the synthetic materials in these items and causing them to adopt fish-like odors, burnt odors, and other nasty smells that one can’t get rid of.

In general, ozone generators in residential settings should be considered extremely dangerous.

In the last several years, small personal use ozone generators were also frequently sold under a variety of false claims, such as air “purifiers,â€

[Marc]

Others may disagree, as they have in the past, but for me, this was the fastest 'quietus' that I've yet to see on this forum.

Caoimhín's post is much appreciated.

Marc

[hausdok]

Others may disagree, as they have in the past, but for me, this was the fastest 'quietus' that I've yet to see on this forum.

Caoimhín's post is much appreciated.

Marc

Jeez,

Now I gotta open up the dictionary and try figure out what the hell you just said.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Tom Raymond]

Here you go Mikey:

quietus [kwahy-ee-tuhs]

–noun, plural -tus#8901;es. 1. a finishing stroke; anything that effectually ends or settles: Having given a quietus to the argument, she left.

2. discharge or release from life.

3. a period of retirement or inactivity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:

1530–40; < ML quiçtus quit (in quiçtus est (he) is quit, a formula of acquittance), L: (he) is quiet, at rest (see quiet 1 ); cf. quit 1 (adj.)

Tom

[Jim Katen]

Not to disturb the quietus or anything, but how does this work with my old Rockwell tools and my old Kenmore vacuum cleaner, that each produce ozone by the bucketload whenever I run them?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

(Hey Mike, I've been collecting the ozone in boxes and jars. Should I take it with me up in a plane and release it into the atmosphere to combat global warming?)

[RobC]

Good Evening, Gents!

......it also attacks their carpets, furniture, Rembrandts, furs, books, and … well pretty much everything else. Frequently breaking down the synthetic materials in these items and causing them to adopt fish-like odors, burnt odors, and other nasty smells that one can’t get rid of.

In general, ozone generators in residential settings should be considered extremely dangerous.

Cheers,

Caoimhín P. Connell

Forensic Industrial Hygienist

www.forensic-applications.com

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Now that's scary.

Your time is very much appreciated

Thank you,

[Caoimhín P. Connell]

Tom:

Man! Am I glad you see your definition! I had to look it up and my dictionary said: “That which brings death; discharge from life.â€

[Marc]

Not to disturb the quietus or anything, but how does this work with my old Rockwell tools and my old Kenmore vacuum cleaner, that each produce ozone by the bucketload whenever I run them?

How so? Are you referring to the production of ozone by the electrical sparking of the commutator brushes on your power tools?

Lightning does produce ozone, if you recall.

Marc

[Jim Katen]

Not to disturb the quietus or anything, but how does this work with my old Rockwell tools and my old Kenmore vacuum cleaner, that each produce ozone by the bucketload whenever I run them?

How so? Are you referring to the production of ozone by the electrical sparking of the commutator brushes on your power tools?

Lightning does produce ozone, if you recall.

Marc

Yes, and yes. But lightning doesn't usually occur within my house. Well, except when my wife gets riled up and makes lightning bolts shoot out of her eyes . . .

[Bain]

Ultimately, I think, some things are simply too important to take chances with.

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Erby's met Loki, the boy wonder, and he's a cool kid. I mean, why take a chance by injecting ozone into his house?

And yes, it's snowing hysterically here, today.

[LookSmart]

With a condensation issue like the one you describe it seems likely that one or more of the bathrooms is venting into the attic space. Often in my area builders cut corners and vent the bathrooms to the soffit area or into the attic space putting gallons of moisture into the space. Also the clothes dryer can be another huge culprit of this type of condensation and mold development. I have found dryer vents that just terminate into the attic. My feeling is that you have more then just an insulation issue. I come across this kind of condensation issue often here in new Jersey. Good luck.

New Jersey Home Inspections - New Jersey Home Inspectors

[Erby]

My sister-in-law used a couple of rented ozone generators to remove a skunk smell from her house. They set em up and vacated for two days. Went back and the odor was gone. Wonder what damage there was to the chattels.

Yeah, Loki is cool, but what kind of master would let her out without her snow booties on. This is Kentucky, not Alaska fer crying out loud1

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