CaoimhÃn P. Connell Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Hello Lancey: All I would like to add to your last comment is that if you find a mould remediation company that wants to take samples, that should be your first clue to RUN AWAYâ⬦. very fast. The ONLY reason a mould remediation company would collect samples is to demonstrate that they donââ¬â¢t know what they are doing, so they are going to collect useless, meaningless, uniterpretable samples to impress you. Cheers! CaoimhÃn P. Connell Forensic Industrial Hygienist www.forensic-applications.com (The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.) AMDG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 AMEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancey Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Wouldn't they have to take samples to know what type of mold it is and to see if the mold has spread to other places? I think it's totally logical they would have take samples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 The species is unimportant, the remediation is the same regardless of species. The best thing that can come from sampling is that you paid for lab time that wasn't required. More likely, you will get an incomplete or ineffective remediation, and most likely they will not address any of the root causes of the conditions conducive to mold growth. Personally, I'd be listening to the scientist (CPC) and not the monkey with a specimen jar, but that's just me. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Hi Lancy, The reason some of us donââ¬â¢t agree with taking samples is that mold is part of the earth with live in. It is everywhere and you can never escape it. Some mold is beneficial (penicillin, blue cheese), some mold may affect one person a certain way and someone else differently. I may eat a peanut and die, and you might have no problems. I have allergies to pollen (or something) in the spring and my wife does not. So the way we interrelate with the world around us is different for everyone. A specific type of mold may give off one type of toxin today and a different type later in the year (or so Iââ¬â¢ve read). So what does taking an air sample and providing a report stating that there are certain types and quantities of mold tell us? How should we interpret the data? How does that data compare to other places we have lived and worked? Many consider this to be a scare tactic. Unless you already know you are predisposed to certain types of mold toxins. If there is mold there is a food source (drywall paper, wood, etc) and moisture. We canââ¬â¢t remove the food source, but we can take measures to remove the moisture. Mold is often a hotly debated topic and I know other will come along with other opinions. I can only encourage you to visit http://www.epa.gov/mold/ and other credible sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancey Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Wow guys, thanks for the thorough answers (especially Ahis). Still on the topic of samples, shouldn't they take them so they know if somewhere else has been effected with the mold? And they didn't just do wall samples, they took air samples also. I'm still thinking that taking the samples for the purpose of finding effected areas is necessary for a complete remediation (which I definitely want of course). Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Lance, Tom and Mark have offered some pretty good comments. Testing(sample) is not usually done, except for those that really don't understand the issue. Go to www.forensic-applications.com and read the "sample mould report". I do not always agree with Caoimhin on all environmental issues, but have great respect for his investigative and writing skills! One of the many things we do at my company is remediation. We do not do 100's of jobs per year, just a couple a month. I can't remember the last "mold test" I did. We may do one at the end of the process, however even then they are very difficult to defend or validate. I always have an independant company/lab do all testing, if needed. It is your home and your project. Maybe the company you have hired is reputable and really good - I just do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancey Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Les, IndoorRestore says that they have their own lab in order to cut down the time and costs of exporting that part of the remediation to an independent company, and so they have an accurate assessment in order to do a complete remediation. They're sounding like they know what they're doing but I'll definitely ask for the lab reports myself to make sure they aren't ripping me off. So far, it seems like they've been thorough with their pre-remediation process. It's also been nice that they've kept me informed, had great customer service, and generally given me a good impression of them so far. I'll keep my guard up though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Les, IndoorRestore says that they have their own lab in order to cut down the time and costs of exporting that part of the remediation to an independent company, and so they have an accurate assessment in order to do a complete remediation. A remediation company that does their own testing? That should set off alarms and red flags a-wavin'. So far, it seems like they've been thorough with their pre-remediation process. It's also been nice that they've kept me informed, had great customer service, and generally given me a good impression of them so far. I'll keep my guard up though.Why, after several knowledgeable folks give you warnings, do you regularly post responses with endorsements that seem like late-night commercials? When I Google your precious mitigation company, why do I find very similar posts on other message boards that also frequently sound like commercials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancey Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 I say that I'm thinking about using them because, well, I'm not convinced I shouldn't because they just sound like a legit and good company. And maybe it's just people like me who have a mold problem and saw them? Or had a mold problem and used them? Maybe they're just a company that puts up a good facade to make people think they're good. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancey Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 P.S. your last quote on me I wrote as a response to Les because he said he didn't know and it could a reputable company and I was basically saying that so far they have acted like a reputable company to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Hey Lance, I suppose I am suffering from a bit of ego. Most folks are basically honest and believe in their own work. The situation as you are describing seems to be right out of our "mold for gold" attitude. Most folks on this forum are inspectors and strongly believe you must address the cause ala Mark's post above. I really understand Bill's comment as he is a nationally recognized and respected inspector. I believe he feels you may be taken advantage of. I also suspect you are being exposed to a little puffery. Older, mature and handsome home inspectors, like me, often suffer from wanting to help everyone. We really are not there and really do not know the whole situation. Ask questions and enjoy your relationship with your chosen company. It is only as good as you think it is! Keep us posted and post some photos if you have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaoimhÃn P. Connell Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Hello Lancey: Actually, Billââ¬â¢s comments echo the same thoughts that have been running in the back of my mind. Iââ¬â¢ve looked at IndoorRestoreââ¬â¢s site ââ¬â and in my opinion, based on their information, IndoorRestore does not strike me as credible. Rather, their information on their site reflects the ââ¬ÅToxic Mould is Goldâ⬠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Whew! I feel like I've just been through a day long seminar on what not to do when dealing with mold. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Double whew........ If Lancey is for real, I think he's have a hard time disagreeing with any of the information Caiomhin presented. I'm not sure if Lancey is fronting for the mould (mold?) company; he sounds kinda like some of my customers that just want to believe all the stuff mould companies tell them. I'll run down a lot of this stuff with some folks, and I can tell they simply don't want to hear it; they want to believe in mold and it's many "deadly characteristics". Are you one of those folks Lancey? FTR, I think (for various reasons) there is some (still undiscovered) connection between moulds and specific individuals genetic predispositions that result in respiratory disease, and possibly other health effects. I've also done enough reading to believe that there is no single or group of molds that does any specific thing. It's a very personalized issue that, for all practical purpose, is almost impossible to qualify without a near lifetime of individual study. Of course, it's all just personal opinion based in my minimalist exposure to credible reference material. It just kinda makes sense that molds can cause health effects in humans. None of my beliefs about mould would reinforce any idea that testing for mold is worthwhile. Great information Caiomhin! Is there some way to take that post and put it in the library? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I've also done enough reading to believe that there is no single or group of molds that does any specific thing. It's a very personalized issue that, for all practical purpose, is almost impossible to qualify without a near lifetime of individual study. I think you're right. For instance, I don't catch the common cold. Go figure. I'm not allergic to strawberries and I'm not allergic to rhubarb; put them both together into a rhubarb pie and feed it to me and I'm headed for the hospital. Great information Caiomhin! Is there some way to take that post and put it in the library?I can probably stick a title on it with his byline, copy it and post it to the library but I wouldn't do it without his say-so. I need him to help us formulate a decent rebuff to the whackjob senators that keep trying to make Washington State home inspectors "look for mold" as part of the home inspection. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I need him to help us formulate a decent rebuff to the whackjob senators that keep trying to make Washington State home inspectors "look for mold" as part of the home inspection. I'd like to hear from Caiomhin just what he thinks it would take to adequately train an accomplished home inspector to look for mold and how badly his liabilities would be elevated. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaoimhÃn P. Connell Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Good morning, Gents! FTR, I think (for various reasons) there is some (still undiscovered) connection between moulds and specific individuals genetic predispositions that result in respiratory disease, and possibly other health effects. Kurt ââ¬â You are absolute right. And itââ¬â¢s not unresolved, but rather the illnesses due to fungi are very real, and well understood, and in some cases can be very disabling. I have been involved in many cases over the last two decades involving very real illnesses involving fungi including moulds. No legitimate researcher disputes the role of fungi in causing, or exacerbating, human illness (including many fungal infections that can cause death). What is disputed is how, without justification, the mere presence of common indoor moulds are defined by charlatans as ââ¬Ådeadlyâ⬠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancey Posted February 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 CaoimhÃn - really all I can say is WOW!!! You pretty literally blew my mind I will absolutely bring up a lot of the points you gave regarding some of that stuff on their website, and see what they have to say about it. Thank you for your insight and your huge amount of research. RE the last few comments: I haven't had any health concerns because of the mold (is it supposed to be mould?) but I was just wanting it gone because of the damage it can cause the house and because it's ugly. I was hoping to make sure it was all completely gone, and therefore putting my trust in IndoorRestore to get the job done, but if it's not really a problem and I can at least partially if not mostly or completely get rid of it all by myself for a lot cheaper than they would charge me, and if they're feeding me BS on their website, I will just do this by myself. I'll let you all know how that phone call goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 . . . RE the last few comments: I haven't had any health concerns because of the mold (is it supposed to be mould?) but I was just wanting it gone because of the damage it can cause the house and because it's ugly. . . . If you just want to get rid of it, get some general purpose detergent cleaner such as Formula 409, or Fantastic, or Simple Green and use it to clean the mold. That will not, however, address the cause of the mold and the mold will probably just come back. Do a little simple detective work to figure out *why* there's mold on your walls (I'm still not convinced that there is, by the way.) and fix the problem before you fix the symptom. - Jim Katen, Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Hi, Yeah, go to post #30 above and click on that link. You can download a book there that will provide instructions for how to clean things up. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndoorRestore Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 In response to the criticism of Mr. CaoimhÃn P. Connell, we at IndoorRestore have produced this response: We were made aware of this blog by a customer who was conducting research on our company. After reading this inaccurate posting, we decided to research the company and persons behind this information and the ââ¬Åexpert opinionâ⬠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaoimhÃn P. Connell Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Hello Anonymous Person hiding behind the pseudonym “IndoorRestore.†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 OK, I'm going with Caoimhin on this round....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Count me in. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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