curtis596

Thank you. That makes sense.

Thanks for making that point. BTW, Matt, isn't going to completely bash the continuous radon meter since they happen to also sell them. We did not buy ours through them, we already had it. And how do I work the changing weather into the whole equation? That is why I ask how do we properly test how effective it is at any given point in time. If I run one test and then run another test, given the change in weather conditions, should the test have a different outcome? Or with a proper system should those test have similar results?

Instead of purposely obfuscating the facts, your case would be much better presented and received had you been forthcoming with an original post that included ALL pertinent information. I have no idea why you have not yet disclosed the actual numbers provided by your continuous monitor unless you intend to drag on an already too-long discussion based on a relationship between, as I see it, a whack job and an unethical radon mitigation system installer. Pray tell, what are the actual numbers- wait, you know what? who cares. If you're going to take the yahoo to court, then do it. I, in fact, came here just to see if I was off base by thinking that this job was anything but standard. I got the information I needed. Thank you.

The installer left one with us and suggested we wait 6 days. In the process of complaining to the service manager, he suggested we wait "approximately 10 days after the installation to start the test so that we can get an accurate idea of where the levels ought to be settling at." As you can imagine, I don't really trust anything they have left here so if I do any follow up testing it will be with a third party.

Just to be clear, our monitor is not showing below 4.0...that is just an example to use as a question.

Just had a thought: If I turn off the fan, should I see my number on my continuous monitor go up? How long would I have to have it off to see a difference in any testing?

Your continuous monitor is worthless. Do not rely on it to tell you anything. Sure, that's fair. Wonder away. While you're at it, you might wonder whether or not this system might work better than a standard system. You speak as if a "standard" radon mitigation system is somehow guaranteed to be the best way to reduce radon levels in a home. This is not always the case. Sometimes the solution that works the best can be far removed from the "standard" cure. There's no way to know without testing. That'd be the part where you have no idea whether or not the existing system works. Listen carefully: I have no dog in this hunt. I'm not about to make any attempt to defend what your contractor did. But as long as you lack proof that the system he installed doesn't work, you don't have a valid complaint in my book. I suspect that the attorney general will feel the same way. DO A POST REMEDIATION TEST. If it shows that your levels are still unacceptably high, than go get the bastards. If not, then go obsess about something else. I can completely appreciate your suggestion. It just seems that it is a no brainer that being under my foundation would be the best choice.

I have a continuous monitor running so I know that the levels are not below 4, so there really isn't a point. Let's say they are 3.9, isn't it fair for me to wonder if they could have been much lower if the system was done the way that is standard? The way that I paid for. Why didn't I get a choice in that matter? They have yet to prove that they couldn't do it the standard way. They cheesed it. That isn't what I paid for. What part of that is so hard to understand? In fact, in a letter where Matt offered to refund our money and remove the system, he acknowledged that many companies wouldn't have even installed a system under our "unusual conditions"...so why wasn't I told that? Why wasn't I given the option? They were happy to take my money for a "unconventional" system. They also were going to refund my money and have since back tracked. Why is that? Oh, right, because he told me he didn't want the liability of us getting cancer down the road. This has nothing to do with whether the system works. (Which I have a firm belief that it doesn't and might end up deciding to prove it just for kicks.) This is about whether this is what I paid for. Anyone could drop a bucket in the ground. I didn't pay for that. If I wanted to drill through my concrete, I would have just done it myself. That is why I paid for this to be done.

Actually, come to find out they don't guarantee any specific level, so I guess I did get what I paid for...BUT I did assume that they would install a standard system. Call me crazy. Here is the actually proposal. I was a dumb consumer, I will take that blame. I just didn't realize that although they talk about certain levels and show systems that in the end I would get neither. "Create radon collection chamber beneath concrete floor in appropriate location." to me doesn't mean a bucket outside my foundation. We will see what the NEHA and the attorney general think. Download Attachment: proposal (3).pdf 286.8 KB

It is pretty simple. Air Quality Control didn't do what I paid them to do.

Bill, thanks for the reply. I actually contacted the regional EPA office to ask about the section that you quoted. He said that it only really comes down to what the NEHA requires, and to file a complaint with them, which I had already started to do. He also said that I should take it to the Michigan Attorney General for fraud, which I will also be doing. I want to thank everyone here for their input. I will be sure to keep this thread updated as this moves forward. Otherwise I don't know what else can be accomplished here. One last thought, if radon mitigation was as easy as dropping a bucket in the ground and hooking up a fan, wouldn't it be all over the DIY sites? LOL If anyone wants to further contact me, they can feel free to through this site or over on my blog: http://www.earthsheltered.org Thanks again for all your help. Michelle

I thought some of you might be interested in looking at their limited component/performance warranty. This is something that should be given to the client before install, preferably with the quote. In our case it was given to us as the installer drove out our driveway. I have erased address and signature for privacy reasons. Click to Enlarge 130.44 KB

Matt, you removed the lovely video you had posted with this comment which completely changes the tone. Keeping it classy. Click to Enlarge 55.01 KB

From the EPA Radon Mitigation Standards: "Contractors who expect to deviate from proven radon mitigation technologies and methods (as defined in the RMS and other EPA references in Section 8.0) for purposes of research on innovative mitigation techniques, shall obtain prior approval from state regulatory offices, document the non-standard techniques, and inform the client of the deviation from standard procedures. In cases where radon mitigation is not regulated by the state, contractors shall obtain prior approval from a Regional EPA office." Bill, where can I find those standards?

My responses are in red.

Wow. Did anyone else notice that Matt changed his post? Thankfully I did a screen shot of the first one. LOL Click to Enlarge 3932.62 KB

Wow. I am shocked at what Matt Noss wrote here. On Saturday, what 2 days before he commented on this forum, he offered to take our system out and return our money, in writing! Yes, in writing. Now he is backing out and wanting to test, claiming that his attorney says it is a liability issue to remove our system in case we ever get lung cancer. LOL I will keep this short but add that I just got off the phone with Henry Erb from Target Team 8 (the local news) and I sent over all the emails, warranty info, proposal, etc. He is interested in running this story if I don't in fact get a refund. I have to keep him posted. There are so many issues with this transaction. When we first questioned the method of install and they didn't jump to put our minds at ease, we started researching and reading all the fine print. Those couple of days with no contact from them led me to this forum, led me to understand that I really had no guarantee of any particular outcome from their "system" and that this was indeed a scam. I hope this gets resolved and that they change their business model. I will be sure to post updates when we have a resolution. Michelle

We are in Oshtemo. I contracted this myself, thinking, "what could go wrong? It seems so simple." Hindsight is of course 20:20. We paid $749. It was a job my husband considered doing himself but for that priced figured why not let them do it. I agree that I don't think this is such a unique situation. It is a basement! A walk out basement. Lol. Of course, Zak (the service manager) tried to explain away the "job" as just that, a unique situation. It is obvious they just didn't want to go through the concrete. Ugh, to do some things differently. *shakes her head* I really appreciate the input. I just wanted to make sure my instincts were correct. Michelle

Being a new member, it seems I can't email or private message you...feel free to email or private message me. I would love some names that you would recommend.

Bingo! That is the place. I want to really pressure them into getting their stuff and returning my money. I am prepared to go to the media. So I will contact you for some names. I would rather pay more to get it done right. I really just thought we had a minor problem and that a standard fix would easily fix it. Then they went and pulled this one. I would have never thought. I can see the benefit of having this industry regulated.

Yes, it is in the contract. After all the research I have done since the install, I just don't feel comfortable with the method as being efficient, let alone effective. I guess time will tell. I am really more questioning the method and wondered if anyone has seen this done before?

Last weekend we had a company install a mitigation system for our underground home. It is an older home that we purchased last fall. It is basically a walk out basement with an earth roof. We decided to test for radon which came back in the 8s. We bought an electronic continuous tester and that runs around 7 or so. The company came out and rather than drill any holes into our slab or foundation, they simply dug down next to our foundation and installed a bucket and attached pipes and a fan to that. I have questioned the legitimacy of such a system. They have yet to show me proof that this is an acceptable method. They did suggest that the bucked draws from under the footing, but I don't know how that would be possible. Do you have any input? Do you think this is the most efficient method? I am concerned they are just shooting to get us under 4 and be done. They tried to claim that due to the style of home that this was the only option. I think that is complete BS and that they were just taking the laziest route. Thoughts? Michelle P.S. The installed the fan and bucket at the far end of my home. Pictures of my home can be found at http://www.earthsheltered.org/my-granol ... -true.html If looking at the pictures, it would be the right hand side, by the retaining wall.