dtontarski

Is their a general consensus on whether the garage door opener should be on a GFCI protected circuit or not? I've read reasons for and against this, but I'm looking for the opinions of some of the more experienced inspectors that contribute to this forum on how they feel about this topic and what they recommend. Thanks! Dave Tontarski The Finger Lakes Region NYS

Great thread...I'd like to thank the guy who started it......oh wait a minute....that was me. Seriously...that's the great thing about this forum. One can ask a question on a topic that they are fuzzy on and everyone can benefit from the dialogue that it initiates with the more experienced inspectors that make this forum such a great asset. Everyone...please keep the questions coming. I consider this forum my online university. Dave Tontarski The Finger Lakes Region of NYS

I inspected a 1963 built home with the meter next to the service panel in the basement. The meter had a grounding electrode conductor connected to the water supply line. The panel did not appear to be bonded to the meter - other than via the incoming neutral service conductor. There were a bunch of equipment grounding conductors terminated under the lug for the incoming neutral service conductor and I called these out and suggested a ground bar be installed to terminate these to. Questions: 1. As is, is this properly grounded? Does the incoming neutral service conductor suffice as a bond between the panel and the grounding electrode conductor from the meter? 2. If a ground bar is installed, should it be bonded directly to the existing grounding electrode conductor, or is bonding it to the panel adequate? Thanks in advance for your review & advice. Image Insert: 140.57 KB Dave Tontarski The Finger Lakes Region of NYS

Thanks Mike...nice no nonsense response....

Based on Doug Hansen's book and the discussion of this topic on this forum, I always call out that neutrals require individual terminals. (no neutrals double tapped with neutrals or neutrals double tapped with grounds on the service panel's terminal bar) Every once in a while I get read the riot act by an irate seller about this being grandfathered or that this passed inspection when the home was built and was never altered. Were neutrals allowed to be under the same terminals with grounds at some time? (I see this all of the time) How should I handle this type of objection? Is this grandfathered? I hear this term thrown out all the time around all kinds of wiring safety issues. Just what does "it's grandfathered" mean and how does or should this affect my inspection process and report writing? Any advice on this would be appreciated. Thanks. Dave Tontarski AKA David LadderMan The Finger Lakes Region of NYS

Mike & Chad - Thanks for the responses. Seems like we have unanimity on what a tear off is. Chad - you said it "was" allowed to install asphalt over wood shingles....past tense? Did this change at some time? The only reason I ask is that I spoke to a local inspector and he was saying that he's heard roofers quote partial tear-offs -down to the wood shingles. I'm with Mike...other than helping the roofer get the bid....this just doesn't make sense. So Chad...as far as you know....would this described "partial tear off" be allowed in the Rochester NY area today? If so, it seems like the MLS should say "partial" tear off. Anyway....I got let off the hook...the current owner climbed up on the roof and said....hey you know what....that engineer (that would be me I guess LOL) was right....I got ripped off. Thanks again.

First off, my apologies for posting and running. I'm between inspections and I've been called back to look at a roof I inspected earlier this week. The home was advertised with a "new tear off roof". I inspected the home (1944 built) and discovered the original wood shingles and another layer of composition shingles on at least a portion of the roof. I've always thought that a tear off implied down to sheathing and beyond that it just wasn't a good idea to put composition shingles over old wood shingles. I've been asked to meet all parties tomorrow morning at the home. If I could get some opinions on what the definition of a tear off is and on the appropriateness of covering wood shingles with composition I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. Dave Tontarski NYS Finger Lakes Area

Thanks all. I'll heed all of your advice....call out the required corrections that I'm absolutely sure about and state my concerns on the other issues. Thanks for the advice....this forum is the greatest. Dave T. The North Coast

I inspected a seasonal home today with lots of homeowner improvements (its going to be a long report). The home has a 2 AL SEC entering a box where it is spliced and then run to 2-separate 100 AMP service panels. I've never seen a SEC spliced like this before. Providing this is an allowable splice (though two fully loaded 100 AMP panels drawing through a 2 AL doesn't seem right to me), wouldn't both panels be defined as service panels requiring their own GEC's? (Currently, only one panel has GEC's on its ground bar) There are numerous double-taps and water leaking from the SEC junction box onto the top of one of the panels and many other issues that require further evaluation by a professional, but I was curious about this splice, and lack of GEC. I'm looking for opinions on this set up and any suggestions on how to comment on it. Thanks. Download Attachment: Copy of Mike 111.jpg 132.47 KB

This is not a need to know, but rather a fill in the blanks question - I figure someone on this forum has the facts - With CO/ALR rated receptacle outlets -What does the "O" stand for? Copper is CU - does the "O" stand for copper with a better resistance to oxidation? I know that the "R" stands for revised, but I've always been curious about the "O"...and seeing some solid AL in a home yesterday prompts me to ask. Thanks in advance....man....the things we lose sleep over.

Bob - Thanks for your review and thoughts on this. I think I will follow suit on how you reference these terms - professional definitions first, but grounds and neutrals is how most folks refer to these. One small gain in report writing efficiencies (and clarity) at a time. Thanks again.

Just to make sure that I have a good grasp on this - equipment grounding conductors and grounded conductors should not be on the same terminal, but this is a minor issue. (the thread I cited explains the issues associated with this). It seems like 90% of the panels I inspect have this condition. How should I address this? To date I have cited that grounded neutral conductors should have there own separate terminals and that equipment grounding conductors should not be on terminals with grounded neutral conductors. At this moment I have a local electrician (I inspected his dad's home (the seller) and cited this and a few other things) is getting all pissy with me. He's saying that grounded neutral conductor is not even and electrical term...funny, it's in Doug Hansen's Book, and saying saying I don't know what I'm talking about. Any advice out there on this?

Found it...great search engine....I keyed in "grounded neutral conductor" and a post which began in 09/2005 titled "Need Electrical Code" returned with the information I needed. I knew I saw it before. It's a good read for anyone interested. But, it still doesn't site any code around this topic. I'm still interested in input. Thanks.

I apologize if this topic has been covered to death... I often see grounded conductors and equipment grounding conductors under single terminals on the terminal bars in the service panel. Is this allowable? I thought I recently followed a thread that discussed this, but I couldn't find it again. If this is not allowable - can anyone provide me the code reference?

Thanks Mark

What's the standard reporting practice with missing AFCI breakers in home's built since they were required by NEC? I see from the last thread that these are often removed soon after home's are built. I inspected a year old home today with no AFCI's in the panel. Do I write this up? As this seems like a common observation - does anyone have a standard report comment that they would be willing to share?

Jim - I took a look in the Hansen book...and based on that I recommended replacement, new guy cables, or bracing....but I left is as - base the corrections on a further evaluation by an electrician (visit necessary due to panel issues). Yea the roofer did a nice job installing the third layer of shingles, but didn't have a clue about flashing. Thanks again and again....your responses have been very helpful.

I thought I'd seen bent mast heads addressed on the forum before, but my search attempts failed. We get a lot of heavy ice build up and tree damage to the service drops around here and I see mast heads with slight bends frequently. Should I always call out bent mast heads and recommend further evaluation? This one today had a pretty good bend. It looks like once upon a time it had guy wires. Is this a definite replacement or would new guy wires be adequate? How should I write this observation up? Download Attachment: Jane 047.jpg 168.76 KB

Thanks you all for your input.

I'm in total agreement on vinyl....yuk. Your install procedures are pretty much as I understood them. I figured if I posted his query I'd hear some opinions from around the country and maybe even some horror stories on why this should not be done. Your opinions are always appreciated and usually worth a chuckle. Thanks Chad.

I inspected a home a while back whose wood shingles were in pretty rough shape. The new owner is getting quotes now for vinyl siding. She has quotes for installing right over the wood and quotes for tearing off the wood shingles prior to the vinyl installation. I would assume a tear off would be best practice...who knows what types of wdo's lurk within the old stuff. Is there a consensus opinion out there on what is the best practice?

Mike - Thanks...Between you and Jim I have the information that I needed to formulate a better way to address this face-to-face with my clients and in my reports.

Thanks Jim - glad I asked. So if it is a new range with a 4-pronged cord - What is the proper recommendation? -new cord or new receptacle outlet?

As I understand it, 120/240 volt appliances (ovens & dryers) have required separate grounded & grounding conductors since 1996. Does this apply to all appliances whether they are free-standing or wall or counter installed? I always call out the fact that the circuit wiring and receptacle outlet will require updating if and when my buyer wishes to update older electric appliances when I see the 2+ground terminated in the panel. Just yesterday I saw new cabinet and counter installed double ovens and range top, yet the old 2+ground cable remained. I called this out as requiring further evaluation. There were other electrical issues, so I'm not requiring sparky to come to solely evaluate this. Was I right in doing so...or as I queried above...is there some exception for appliances that are not free standing?

I inspected a 1986 built home today that was converted from all electric (baseboards & water heater) to a gas boiler/hot water in the early 90's. I've never seen through wall venting like this before. I'd welcome some critical eyes taking a look at this and opinions on this installation. Download Attachment: Through Wall Venting.1.jpg 125.8 KB Download Attachment: Through Wall Venting.2.jpg 97.45 KB Download Attachment: Through Wall Venting.3.jpg 103.49 KB Download Attachment: Through Wall Venting.4.jpg 99.76 KB Download Attachment: Through Wall Venting.5.jpg 106.65 KB