roadguy

Ah, now we are getting somewhere, Kevin. There is some real feeling there instead of a bunch of words that say...well, not as much as I'd like. My point was how that one little clause could color the tone of the whole document. Whether bluntly stated (as I have done in my last posts) or cleverly wrapped in carefully crafted language (as you have done), it is not a good feeling, in the end, if the person gets a sense of being "dismissed", or feels their character had been impugned. This principle applies whether drawing up a contract, posting to a forum, or speaking to your significant other.

Kevin, I am going to respond to your last post, although, as a general rule, I find it a waste of time and energy to continue a discussion once a participant in the discussion states that another's opinion is somehow "incorrect" (i.e., "misses the mark"). I don't care. That's how I felt when I read it. And, in my opinion, it would not be a good idea to include language in my basic contract which aroused those sorts of feelings (in me) to address an issue that is, by and large, not really an issue. You may now consider yourself to have received a negative comment regarding your contract.

Les, That particular mugshot was taken shortly before I got my annual haircut.

Um... While I appreciate your perspective and can understand where this type of thinking could be necessary in your particular situation (absentee clients), I believe your fixation on the CYA factor (with the resultant distancing/alienation of client) is unnecessarily adversarial in tone and language for most HI's. By and large, it is better for HI's (and most other consultant-type professionals) to cultivate a more personable relationship with the client, with a heavy dose of trust, rather than foster an attitude of distrust from the beginning by shotgunning them with a bunch of legally BS (that's Buck Shot, BTW).

Jim, I have one I could rent you for those occasions when you have to pull out all the stops and use the 2 weimie method. He's a little older, slightly overweight, doesn't hunt, and is slightly curmudgeonly...perfect?!

Gotta tell ya that this is not my forte, the various architectural styles/decor (just ask my wife). Is the "Field Guide" a fairly definitive reference that it would be wise to acquire? How about a basic primer type reference (with stick figure drawings!), anyone got a suggestion?

AH, the importance of complete and concise composition of sentences cannot be over-emphasized. I meant that I was skeptical regarding the idea that all of the water would drain out. My concern centers around the idea that, at some point, the cohesion (not adhesion, BTW) inherent to water molecules would overcome the force of gravity and allow a certain percentage of the moisture to remain in the pores of the porous material. Unless there is some kind of osmosis-type action going on within the material to draw all of the moisture downward, then there will be some retainage. I believe that means that we are thinking similarly. Regards the using public as guinea pigs, snake oil salesmen of the past only wish they could have had the lawyers some of these companies get ahold of.

Hi, Mike I'm skeptical regarding the idea of water "draining" down out of a material that thin, porous though it may, when it is sandwiched between the sheathing and the siding.

Yeah. So if y'all don't mind, I'd like to get back to the whole rat poo thing. Not that bull poo isn't interesting and all...[:-yuck]

Hi, Jim I kinda get what you're saying and kinda don't. I assume that what you mean by practical impact is some kind of functional malfunction [:-slaphap that would result in some kind of mechanical failure/damage, but if the main function of the item is aesthetic only, and it has been installed in such a way that it will not result in damage, you would not report it. Am I close?

Housewhisperer, You were doin' fine 'til you got to your sample simple document (hee,hee). What's missing from the document is a release by the client, which you previously went to great lengths to define/protect, and are now handing over the "object exchanged for reasonable and fair compensation" without their consent. Are you saying that, if I happened to be walking by, notice that you are performing an inspection, presented you with a document such as the one you submitted (without any acknowledgement in written form from your client), that you would hand over the results of your inspection? That was the implication of your post. I'm with O'Hausdok on this one: HELL, NO.

Hi, Chris Editorializing, as it pertains to journalism (the main application of the word, by the way), is when the journalist deviates from the terse AP stylebook and goes beyond answering the basic five (questions): Who, What, When, Where, and How. Going beyond those basic questions usually involves injecting some kind of opinion/speculation/agenda and generally occurs when there is an attempt to answer the "Why". I'm not convinced that the word can be applied at all to the type of "reporting" that an HI does. Yeah, yeah, I'm aware of the various discussion threads going on regarding the "amount of opinion, where does it end?" thing, and how there needs to be some kind of consensus/standard/agreement as to how much is necessary...blah,blah,blah. That is a decision that each inspector/company is going to have to make based on the market he/she/they are serving. Some customers will want the basic box-checker, others will need to have an "expert" full information provider. Some HI's will serve just one niche, some will serve all levels (hopefully with a sliding pay-scale). Where a person could get into trouble is when an HI tries to provide the "expert" level (and price), when he/she has only box-checker knowledge/abilities. Could that problem be minimized by licensing/certifications? Etc...etc...etc... First paragraph=descriptive defintion Second= Blow-hard example [:-bigmout

All due respect, It's not just a cosmetic issue (especially for a new home). It's a quality of work issue. How many of you have labelled some addition, roof job, etc. as being "amateur workmanship"? If you really wanted to stretch it, it could be a safety issue. Ever been to an amusement park where they have one of those "crazy houses" with the floors built on a slant, pictures hung at an angle, etc.? The visuals do not agree with what your sense of balance is telling you, making you feel "all messed up". When I opened that pic, it almost made me ill; I found my head tilting slightly to the right to compensate. Just a thought.

Yet again, TIJ proves to be worth its weight in gold (and this is one heavy forum). It's like hitting the information lottery jackpot every single day. Ya click on a topic, innocently open the pics someone has posted, and, as an impending sense of doom wells over you, you scratch your head and mutter, "What the [:-censore?!" Off you go to give yourself a crash course in obscure electrical set-ups [:-dunce] (or any other systems, for that matter), and by the time you come back-BLAM! There it is: answers that may have taken you days to find (if at all), neatly packaged for your consumption (Hats off to ya, Mike O'). And, for dessert, an interesting tidbit regarding the floor tiles (nice catch, Kurt [:-magnify). At this point, a person could either thank their lucky stars for having access to this forum [:-party], or begin to feel a little [:-bigeyes inadequate, perhaps? Hang tough, strawman[:-thumbu]. "BE a good one, or don't be one."

Right on, Kurt, right freakin' on [:-yuck]. That's why , in my original post way back yonder, I was lobbying for some "collective bargaining" on the part of the folks from this forum with respects to the features/pricing available from the manufacturer's. It digressed into a "Ford vs. Chevy, which brand is better" thing. Quite frankly, I'm most interested in the best way to gain access to the equipment in a cost-effective way. Anyone ever heard of volume discounts?![:-party] I realize that this isn't an association; it's a professional improvement forum. But...[]

Kurt, The field of view for the fixed focus lens on the RAZir is 25x19 (degrees). The FLIR standard lens is 19x14 and the wide angle is 34x25, hence the razir would fall in between the two, slightly wider than the standard but not nearly as wide as the wide-angle. There is a telephoto available for the razir, but I can't see that it would be all that useable for HI. On a different note: Has anyone explored the rental option? Given the propensity for techno-gadgetry such as this to improve rapidly (and the price to come down fairly rapidly), it might be a good way for a guy to get into it without having the "Doh, I wish I'd waited 'til this [insert latest feature here] had come out" moment.[?]

Hi, Kurt. Yes, the software is similar in regard to marking data points (up to 4, if I recall correctly), as well as MIN-MAX, changing color scale to fit temp range, etc. Quite frankly, there were many features that, while kinda neat, would probably serve no purpose to the average HI. One thing that did stand out was the fact that each image creates an IRI file, which will have standard image (CCD) file, infrared image file, and voice annotation (if used) all in one file. When you pull up that image file, the standard view is displayed side-by-side with the IR view and any verbal notes you made at the time are played back. Exporting the images (like to a Word doc or something) was very simple; standard image files (J-PEG, bmp, etc). I also appreciated the fact that uploading to PC/laptop is accomplished simply through USB connection. I'm not completely sold on it yet, though.

Hi, Chris The RAZir as shown to me was priced similarly to the B2 (about $10K). No real deal-decider there. I cannot speak as to the service; in fact, I was kinda hopin' that someone would be able to chime in on that area. The unit is small (not much larger than a flip-type cell phone) and did not seem to me to be designed for use in a "rugged" environment. Not that it was chintzy, just not as "field" oriented as the FLIR/Fluke types. That small size could be a big benefit (just tuck it in a holster while climbing around), or durability/service could be a big issue, one that might recommend the more durably designed units. A plus, though, is that the report software seemed much easier/more functional for this type of work. That is one of the reasons I'm considering it. The unit was demo'd to me by an independent dealer named Jeff Leake of the Leake Company out of Dallas, TX. Seemed very knowledgeable and straight-forward regarding the various unit's capabilities. Am not sure as to what geographic areas he covers, but here is his e-mail: leakeco@mindspring.com

Ain't dat da truth, Erol. In fact, what I'd actually hoped was that as I was busy chattin' here, somebody was rollin' out a super-scanner that produced a 3-D floorplan of the structure just by doing a walk-around, with voice-to-text conversion of verbal notes I made as I walked around (no keyboarding![:-party]), with positive ID of all water heaters, furnaces, etc.(Recall notices/problems automatically updated in its database), and it all being recorded to a DVD that it pooped out when the "inspection" was finished. Is that too much to ask?!? Wait a minute. Then the potential property owners wouldn't need me...[:-bigeyes

Not sure I'm following you on that statement, Erol. As I understand it, the resolution for the IR images is determined by the FPA (focal plane array) microbolometer, which is a 160x120 on this unit, same as the B2. Please explain. [?] FYI, regarding the listed "automatic" features, these could be toggled on/off as needed by the operator (i.e., looking for areas that indicated only a certain temperature range, etc.). The camera can automatically adjust the color display range to reflect the temperature span being viewed, however, that is also determined by the operator. Similar to a 35mm SLR camera, you can go full manual to full auto or almost anything in between.

Whoa, there, O'Hausdok! I forgot to include the Angelic Smiley[:-angel] with that comma comment.The tongue was firmly in the cheek with the trivial correction! It certainly wasn't intended to drive you to the bottle,er...bucket. Had a guy demo the RAZir mini cam (along with several other models) for me about 2 weeks ago and I am still impressed with its features/ease of use/value for the money as compared to the FLIR and Fluke models. www.imaging1.com/razir.html if you want to check it out.

In my mind, it boils down to this: If I am going to use the thermal imager as a report tool, then I need high resolution so that the images will be fairly "self-explanatory" to untrained report readers. If, however, I will limit its use to an inspection tool that I simply make reference to in the report, then I would not need quite as much. IOW, I would rely much less on the image quality and more on my ability to interpret the image. The one caveat to this would be whether or not the lower resolution models would actually allow me to see everything I would need to. I have seen no evidence that they would not show what I need to see. BTW, Hausdok, commas should appear both before and after an adverbial modifier (i.e., "essentially"). And there will be no "stomping off" on my part.

Why, whatever do you mean?[:-angel] You got the condensed version.[:-bigeyes My apologies. I mistakenly assumed that this forum would be like most of the others I have checked out where all grammatical conventions (punctuation,spelling,etc.) are tossed out the window so that participation excitation is increased via the challenge of "deciphering the code".[:-party] Actually, the opposite is true. I intentionally took my hat off so that all my half-baked ideas could cook a little longer.[:-crazy] Appreciate the welcome, though, and look forward to what promises to be some interesting "discussion".

Greetings to all! I felt like I needed to say that because this is my first post and I have never liked buttin' in on a conversation without at least saying "Hi"![] By way of introduction, my name is James and I am currently the Quality Control Mgr. for a highway construction company, but am going to make the "leap of faith" in the near future to independent (as in Non-franchised) HI. I have been putting off doing so for some time because, quite frankly, the "profession" has not been well represented/looked upon with respect by the public in my area; there seems to be an abundance of flim-flam artists (hence the word profession in quotes). That negative connotation comes from my personal experience (on homes that I was purchasing and had "inspected") with the following: 1)An "inspector" who walked through the house observing/stating the obvious, that he punctuated with a preponderance of exclamation points, which he then delivered on yellow legal paper as the finished "report", and 2)an inspector who holds a PE certificatiion (I learned my lesson from the 1st experience[:-dunce]) who, while very thorough, felt it was necessary to use a lot of technical jargon (when much simpler descriptions would have sufficed) which, IMO was a thinly veiled attempt to impress his customers with an unnecessary level of grandiosity. When my wife questioned him regarding some of these items, the condescension in his tone was almost sickening. Neither of these situations gave me any sense of value for my money spent, nor in any way encouraged me to regard the industry as a profession[:-censore. That is, until I came across this forum and saw (thru discussions by Kurt, et al.) that there are indeed professionals in the field and a need for such in my corner of the world. It is my hope that I will succeed on both those accounts. And now, to the reason I am posting this here instead of a more general discussion topic: The purpose of having a home/property inspection performed is to give the purchaser a statement of the current condition of the property (a "snap-shot", if you will) and to alert them to problems/potential problems relating to the structure. This requires that the home inspector be, first and foremost, an excellent communicator and, secondarily, technically astute/adept/equipped. It is these directives that a professional inspector will use to determine what information will appear on the report, the format used to convey that information, and the tools used to gather the information. Keeping in mind that we are becoming an increasingly visual/technically-oriented society, it becomes very apparent that the HI profession needs a tool that is graphical in nature and that adds some kind of technical validation to statements the inspector makes. One need only look at the success of TV shows such as CSI and the effect that it has had on juries to realize this. Will thermal imaging make every inspector competent? Absolutely not! Will it be an invaluable tool in the hands of a trained professional? Without a doubt. The reason I am entering into this discussion at all is because I see a real opportunity for the professionals in this field to have some input to manufacturers that results in a tool that is produced specifically for this type of application rather than trying to adapt something for use later. The technology already exists to incorporate normal (visual spectrum) images with thermal imaging, either side by side or as visual image with thermal highlights. Voice annotation/graphical notations on the image (the proverbial "high-gloss photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining each one"-remember "Alice's Restaurant", anyone?), and all these things now available in a package that costs about $10,000- a complete inspection tool. I would like to refresh your memory regarding a discussion on this very board that took place over a year ago. It began with a new inspector's question regarding software choices (and is how I came across this forum in the first place, Google search for home inspection software for the Macintosh). The discussion progressed rapidly from that point to the inclusion of digital photos (whether such was necessary or not. Kurt, I believe you were more inclined to give a well-written description, the main objection being the time involved in incorporating these images into the report and the impact this had on the profitability of the home-inspection enterprise, a good point). It is interesting to note that, barely a year later, the discussion is now about incorporating thermal images/technology into the inspection (quite a leap, eh?). I refer to this previous discussion because I believe it illustrates very well the need for this profession, if it is indeed to remain a profession, to step up and make known its needs as an industry to those who would supply it. My thinking is this: If images, especially thermal images, are to become a necessity in the home inspection profession (as it appears that it will), why not have an imaging device that is used to build the report rather than have a device that simply produces images that then have to be transferred to report (with the same hassle associated with importing digital camera files into reporting software)? Now is the time to be getting with these manufacturers to have this be a reality. Again, I do not think that this technology will solve all problems associated with this profession (even the best tools will not make a true craftsman out of an idiot), but I do believe that, as HAUSDOK stated in the opening post, it will "elevate the inspector...from simple technician to a true technology professional". And, for a different take on the cost of the equipment: That could be beneficial in the sense that it will create what economists call a "barrier to entry"; if it becomes pretty much an industry standard, such a cost could deter those who are not ready to take it seriously from entering the field. Okay...so there's my shpeel..Feel free to flame at will. Be advised, though, that years of working out in the sun around very hot asphalt/crusty road const. workers has pretty much turned my skin to armor[:-slaphap