mgbinspect

My point is, if you're going to conjure up a code, then go ahead & name it. That doesn't mean that you have to conjure it. There really isn't a code, standard, or practice that addresses this anyway, so why mention one? If you say that this doesn't meet "safety standards" then people are going to wonder, "What standards?" And you'll be stuck replying, "Geez, I don't know, I just thought it sounded good." If you tell them to make modifications to meet safety standards, anyone with a brain is going to ask what standard, exactly, it should meet. And, once again, you'll be stuck saying, "I dunno." If you're not willing to mention the code, you should't be mentioning "safety standards" either. Whatever objection you have to mentioning code would apply just the same to a nebulous "safety standard." - Jim Katen, Oregon One can't argue with that logic. I suppose the real problem is that I always assumed that there was a specific code about softer metal gas ditribution lines exposed in traffic areas, like the living or dining room, where they might accidentally be ruptured or pulled apart. In most cases, when I refer to safety standards, it's regarding such issues as: railing or stair construction; the lack of GFCI in areas; etc. (the obvious) The practice, on my part, comes from too many past home inspector seminars, where a guest attorney said, "Don't site code." I guess it's possibly become an old trick for an old dog. Discussions like this one are precisely what I like about hanging out here - being challenged to free our minds a bit. The point is well taken. I believe that I'll be somewhat more mindful about how best to convey a legitimate concern - especially when it is in respet to a known code that does not apply to a home, due to its age. That, for me, is always a tough subject to dance around. Unfortunately, this is all a bit late for this report, since I fired it off before you offered food for thought. I doubt I'll get a call, since the client and I discussed the whole affair on site, but one never knows... [:-graduat

Aside from making your report really vague, what possible advantage is there to saying those things? - Jim Katen, Oregon I could not be more sincere in inviting you to expound, because until you do, your statement is no less vague. If you have a strong opinion make it clear. I see myself as both a student and a teacher here. School me. If your objection to an installation is based on the code, just say so. Don't dance around with euphemisms. That only makes things less clear. It's no help to tell someone that something doesn't meet a standard if you don't tell them what the standard is. Likewise, telling someone to alter a thing to meet a standard without citing that standard is not helpful. - Jim Katen, Oregon I've always tried to, rightly or wrongly, avoid inserting code - chapter and verse into my reports. Yet, most of the time real threats to safety are obvious without mentioning codes. I suppose it may be one of those areas in which I may need to "get with the times". And, frankly, hanging out here gives one a bit of the general climate change in our profession.

Jeez, that really sucks. How about this: At the first floor fireplaces, the gas pipes run across the floor where people could trip on them. Hire a gas pipe fitter to move the pipes to a safer location. - Jim Katen, Oregon [:-thumbu] I can live with that. [^]

Aside from making your report really vague, what possible advantage is there to saying those things? - Jim Katen, Oregon I could not be more sincere in inviting you to expound, because until you do, your statement is no less vague. If you have a strong opinion make it clear. I see myself as both a student and a teacher here. School me.

"I guess I'm just not seeing the hazard here. Who the heck walks 6" away from a wall in front of a fireplace? Wouldn't they run into the mantel?" - Jim Katen, Oregon Sadly, a few seasons ago, that would have been MY response, and still remais my general attitude. But a world full of less tolerant Home Inspectors makes it difficult to be sensible, without it becoming a future problem. Sometimes, finding the happy medium is a challenge, isn't it? I've seen a lot of change in our profession in seventeen years - some better and some worse.

I've been doing something like that for years. If someone questions my price, I'll sometimes (not always) say, "I'll tell you what. Book the inspection with me for $xxx.xx. That's what I think the inspection is worth. After the inspection, if you feel that my fee is out of line, you can pay me whatever you think it's worth." I've never had anyone try to pay me less. - Jim Katen, Oregon [:-thumbu]

I always call for sealant at all junctions between door and window units and any masonry veneer or J-channel. Did a home a while back where many of the windows around the outer edges had condensation on the inner pane of fairly new insulated glass replacement windows. None of the above junctions were sealed, and you could literally feel chilly drafts at some of the inside window perimeters.

Proposed note: "The fuel supply lines for the gas fired coal baskets in the fireplaces on the main level are not to current safety standards. They pose a possible tripping hazard and the materials are soft enough to be easily ruptured by blunt force. While this setup may have been acceptable when the gas units were installed, it is not safe and modifications to meet current safety standards should be made as soon as possible."

Yes, I believe it is, at the very least, an aluminum alloy. I gather, having seen this many times in older setups, that it was acceptable. Do you know anything about this material not being acceptable now?

That's what I wanted to hear. I've been thinking that even vented gas log can have the damper closed to the point that a damper lock meters. Isn't that right? Or, is a damper lock a failsafe device? It's a shame that the bricks they removed are on one side of the throat instead of dead center over the coal set. I'm not crazy about that. But, my main concern was CO, so maybe it's enough to emphasize CO detectors. Probable note: "The lower level fireplaces are shallow - originally designed for coal. The throats of the fireplaces were, at some point, sealed off with brick. Some of those bricks were apparently removed to provide ventilation for the natural gas burning vented coal basket sets. Since these modifications are most likely not to any set of standards, it is strongly recommended that CO detectors be installed in the rooms with these gas units. Modifications to the throats may be required if the detectors report. Also, remember that these gas units are considered vented, and the damper MUST be open when they are in use."

Ocracoke was my old stomping ground for many years - camped there several times a year for about eight years. You don't happen to be friends of Howard and Daffney, who reside there, but are originally from your neck of the woods. Howard started out as a lofe guard, then a park ranger and finally the school teacher there, while his wife was in real estate.

Yep, I never actually mention codes. My favorite worn out statements are, "..not to current safety standards." or ".. not in keeping with current standard trade practices." The tripping deal is my main concern. If it were steel so one couldn't possibly rupture the pipe, I'd feel better about the affair. They did have a heavy duty fire screen around it all.

Below is one of three natural gas fire coal basket replicas in a completely renovated 1910 rowhouse - truly amazing ideas and work. Click to Enlarge 85.84 KB Anyone familiar with THIS PARTICULAR coal basket set? I removed some of the pieces trying to expose the burners, but it was obvious I'd have to completely unload it to figure it out - no attached docs. It appears to be an older vented unit. The throat on all these fireplaces was sealed off with brick. A portion was removed to permit some venting. My initial thought is that all of the bricks blocking the throat should be removed for good measure. Click to Enlarge 68.86 KB The flues have, at some point, been relined with terra cotta tiles. I doubt terra cotta flues were original to the structure. And, a chimney top damper has been added. Click to Enlarge 63.05 KB Thoughts on venting and CO? Any boilerplate you guys normally throw in the report that may inspire me to modify my own is greatly appreciated. As always, thanks in advance. Class is in session.... Mike

1910 row house, nicely upgraded throughout. Of course, I know that the gas line exposed like this in the living room is wrong, but it may be grand-fathered. Click to Enlarge 50.93 KBSo, I'm looking for two things regarding this set-up: 1. Specific code that addresses this setup. I am not finding anything in my CodeCheck docs. 2. Sound boilerplate addressing the general safety concern and recommendation to correct it even if grand-fathered. I already have some basic boilerplate about this condtion, but I really wish to make it a bit more authoritative. As always, thanks in advance. Mike

I guess we all have little pet peeves, and this is definitely one of mine. It's so stupid. "Can't see it from my house." [^] As Chad used to say, (and I wonder why he still doesn't, because I miss it) "OK, I'm done now... "

Today's new construction heat pump air handler in the attic: Click to Enlarge 47.01 KB [:-banghea [:-gnasher [:-banghea The good news; I think I've come up with an answer. If we tell the installer that it's a new heated and cooled forced BEER system, they'll immediately conclude that the bushings need to be around the refrigerant lines where they penetrate the cabinet. [:-graduat

In today's buyer's market, every little bit of spit polish helps. Membership costs a tad bit over an inspection and it's another pretty strong web presence. I do get a lot of inquiries each month and a few jobs a year via their site, so someone's looking. Having years of membership with an uninturrupted A+ rating can't hurt sales.

That's, by far, the best use for pennies I've seen. I hate 'em and wish they'd do away with them. They're a pain.

The photo in the origianal post of this thread, was taken Mar of 2007, but I believe it's the angle the photo was taken at, to show the fan, that is misleading.

That's funny. I'm so used to seeing the flashing, and equally annoyed when it's done carelessly or covered up completely. In most cases, it's not done right. Yet, in this situation, with the rear of the building facing due south which tends to be head into oncoming hurricanes, it's probably the best choice. It's amazing how even the slightest loose roofing shingle can be the beginning of a whole section or slope of roofing being peeled right off.

Yeah, I didn't see this question, Mike. If the Frontier Culture Museum recreated this Irish Farmhouse correctly, they would have used what's called "peat sod" for the "underthatch". It might look a bit like the dirt clumped from under grass sod, but it's quite different. It's vegetation that already decayed in a marsh. Between this and septic systems, Irish Peat is unique stuff - brown gold.

John, No indication of a drain other than a slight slope. the balcony is probably about ten feet wide and fifteen feet long. I see no scupper or indication of an internal downspout system.

Hey thanks all! This has been very educational. I've seen this setup on tons of flat roofs in the city, (and actually didn't make the connection) but have never seen the product before installation. I'm satisfied that it's fine - in fact, in this environment, beyond fine - smart.

I've been a member for ten years. I always ask how my clients heard about me and it is rare that they say the BBB. But, it sure has been nice on a couple of times when their reason for picking me was, "because you were the only home inspector with no complaints." It seems, as Scott has already said, folks leave the BBB as soon as trouble comes up, because getting things straight is a process with the BBB. I also agree with Kurt, it doesn't offer a whole lot other than maybe some perceived credibility. I'm at a point that, like ASHI or NAHI, I've been a member for so long I hate to break the chain.

Thanks Bill, I believe the second photo shows the turned up edge of that mat. I think we're good to go then, except I still don't like the way units rock over the joists. I bet they should have doubled up the sheathing.