mgbinspect

Thank you. I do love to express myself, and I do enjoy writing. Unfortunately, I know enough about English Composition and Grammar to know that there are some very skillful writers here that could go to town on that piece, with a red pencil, and be right in doing so. Nonetheless, thanks. Writing it, brought back some dear memories.

Best not to try, Marc. Where angels dare not tread... [] (Kidding, Bain. You da man! Carry on...)

Will one of these disconnects cut power to the other? Yes. But is there a 4-wire feeder between the two panels that you describe? Yes and yes.

That's a good question. I find myself dwelling on another element of old homes that makes me sad - something that I know Bill K, and many here can appreciate: One of the things that makes old homes outstanding, is the fact that they were constructed by true masters - men obsessed with finding near perfection in their field of endeavor. It was a bug that they caught - a sense of pride and tradition. I had that bug. I don't say this "about me", but rather about "that bug" - that obsession and drive to master a trade: In commercial work, I could be one of three men on a long gymnasium wall. The other two guys would be killing themselves to meet me in the middle of the wall. My work hardly needed to be cleaned (neat as a pin) and theirs looked like a train wreck. I went home relaxed, while they went home exhausted. (Truth be told, I usually didn’t go home. I went on to a side job and laid more brick until dark.) There was nothing special about me. Anyone could do what I did. Most simply didn't care to get that good. All they wanted was a paycheck and a six pack. In masonry, to achieve that level of knowledge and skill earned one the title "mechanic" and it was not a word thrown around lightly. There was a reverence that came with the title. And, there was a deep sense of pride in knowing that I could walk onto any job site, and do, without hesitation, anything the man asked me to do. I met very few mechanics during the time I was in the trade. The funny thing about masonry is that you know a man's skill level in about two minutes. You'd hire a guy and ask him to do something, and by the time he had set up to do it and begin, you already knew he had stretched the truth about his ability. I believe you are a carpenter? At the Design/Build firm I used to sell and design for, was a master carpenter, Irving Polan. Similarly, watching Irving do his thing - trim carpentry, was like watching one dance ballet. Like me, he had a pencil on his ear, and he knew where it and most of his other tools were, without even looking. He could just reach for them like a blind man. He was so fluent that trying to help him actually slowed him down. Every time he rocked right, everything that could be done on his right foot was accomplished, and as he rocked left the motion continued. It was all about harnessing inertia and teaming it up with method and knowledge. Watching Irving work, was a truly beautiful thing. He'd do his thing, while gnawing on a wad of tobacco the size of a golf ball, and singing or telling some joke. He was happy when he was working. Sadly, he was diagnosed one day with pancreatic cancer and was gone in a matter of months. But his memory lives on in my mind anyway. I think the saddest thing of all is something that a lot of folks don't even understand: that many of the tradesmen from early American History, were gentlemen - multi-lingual mathematicians and architects all rolled up into one neat package - truly brilliant guys. If they met us, they'd think we were absolute dunces. Well, if they met many of the guys here on TIJ, they'd actually be pleasantly surprised to have stumbled upon an oasis of knowledge and understanding, in a wasteland. In example: I used to watch masons try to establish right angles by projecting outward with a taught line and a square, or the old 3, 4, 5 technique, both of which are really unreliable ways to do it, when one can simply swing large arcs to establish the precise point that is at right angle. Or... Using triangulation to check the squareness of the points in a foundation: I once laid out a foundation for a New England log home that was really cut up. It had fourteen bearing heights. The guys that came to set the log home, actually asked the home owner for my name and called to inform me that this was the first time they had set one of their log homes on a foundation and it fit like a glove - no shims, no overhangs, etc. (Thank heaven for triangulation and a good transit.) All such skills were a snap - a given - to the masters of the past, and are mostly lost to the average alleged tradesmen of today. It seems there's always a trade off, with the advent of technology - production goes up, but the mastery of the trade fades away. The tradesman gets dumbed down to a great degree... That fact is difficult for the young to realize and appreciate. They haven't had the pure pleasure of watching a true master in motion, which is a hard thing to describe, and I'm sure I've done a poor job of it. I do know that on commercial work, guys would sometimes, in total frustration say to me, "Mike, slow down. You're making us look bad.", when making them look bad was the very farthest thing from my mind. It wasn't a competition. It was an element of the trade - a level of human efficiency. And, I just loved what I was doing, and was in the heat of doing it. Everything else had melted away into oblivion. When I look at the old stately homes that so many of us inspect, I see those tradesmen - mechanics, master carpenters and plumbers at work, as ghostly figures in my mind. If you're really looking, there's so much more to these old homes, than meets the eye...

Jim, if it helps, the service entry cable, through the modification, simply has two successive main disconnects - one added outside, and the original main disconnect in the service panel. The new main disconnect, panel is bonded and grounded to the original grounding rod for the original service panel, and the original service panel remains bonded and grounded to that same rod. I hope that makes sense.

Jim, now that I think more about it, there was actually another reason I never cut flue liners with a hand saw. It's almost harder than the method I describe becuase: 1. Getting started is EXTREMELY hard. The blades drifts - flies all over the surface of the tile. 2 You can't cut through a tile like you do a block of wood. If you did, when you neared completion it would break, due to the weight hanging on the bit of tile still in tact. In other words, even with the saw, you had to work toward that even,, all at once, snap apart point. And, while a table saw helps keep the blade steady, most tiles were too big for a table saw. Flue liners were a royal pain in the arse to cut, but I got to the point I could even do angular cuts and chisel in thimbles - now chiseling in a thimble was an art all its own.

There was enough wrong with it, to simply state that an electrician should do what is required, now that the main panel has become a sub-panel. It's going to get fixed. That's the important thing. But, it would be great if someone could throw in their qualified two cents regarding the whole affair (specifics). I'd certainly like to learn how to properly address this, for future reference. [:-graduat

That's great. Keep an eye out for cats. I lost a whole nest full in my front yard last season, via the cat across the street. Life...

My experience has shown that there is very little cutting necessary. The pieces were custom made for each project. Advertisements and catalogues usually state "made to order" as well as a large stock of standard pieces. The architects plan and detail drawings were submitted to the manufacturer, who would fabricate and deliver the product to the site in "perfect condition". For structural tile, manufacturers extruded the clay through many different die sizes and then each piece was wire cut to the length/height needed. Decorative, glazed architectural elements were induvidually custom molded. That's what I figured. The stuff is amazingly strong, but a real b*#ch to cut. [:-graduat

Why not just use an abrasive wheel on a skilsaw? Much of the time we were out in the middle of nowhere, without a generator. (We really didn't have much need for a generator and saw, except for something like cutting a flue liner, when we were doing residential work. And, I don't ever recall needing flue liners on commercial jobs, when we did have table saws - go figure.) So, under the circumstances, it just ended up being easier. Not to mention, it was just one of those things (a right of passage) that separated the journeyman from a brick layer. Similarly, I had gotten to the point that while building corners, I only needed to break out my level and measure my coursing about every three courses. [:-tophat] There are so many things, like that, the average bricklayer has no clue how to do anymore. PS. Now on commercial work, we always had a table saw going and a guy that ran it, exclusively. He was a whiz - even make us grinding stones complete with a handle and a grid grinding face, out of hollow four inch concrete block. Smoky, we called him. (The poor guy probably had emphysema from running that saw for years.) A lot of the brick we used on schools was so highly ceramic they were like the flue liners - impossible to cut with a hammer. They'd shatter / explode. A saw was the only way to cut them. And, a hammer wasn't allowed in cutting concrete block (government).

I imagine most of it was cut to the odd sizes with a chisel, but some pieces like the column components above must have been very hard to cut. I used to cut Terra cotta flue liners to size with a hammer and chisel. It required great patience. After scoring the tile all the way around, I'd fill the tile to the top with sand, to dampen the vibration (without the sand, you'd break it every time.). Then, very carefully cut away the thickest tile at the four corners with a pointed chisel. Then, slowly and ever so patiently tap along the scored line with a very wide bladed bolster chisel. You couldn't hit the chisel much harder than a tap, or you'd shatter the tile. Finally, after about three times around the tile, it would crack on through and you could lift the top part off. The shorter piece always had to be at the bottom, or you'd break it. Once you had the piece cut to the length you needed, the cut end had to be dressed - much like a stone, with the square end of a brick hammer just little bits at a time. Every strike with anything had to be well thought out - hitting into the length of the tile so it would absorb the blow rather than shatter. It was always rewarding when you went through that process with success, and a real pisser when you got almost there and suddenly heard the clank of a cracked tile. You were never out of the woods until you were done striking it. The dang things could break at any time during the process.

Apparently, a lot of folks have a disdain for the creatures. I was on a home inspection a few years back and an old codger across the street was meandering around his yard with a compressed air BB rifle. I didn't put two and two together until a little later, when I heard the distinct puff of released highly compressed air followed a second later by a dull thud. I didn't even have to turn and look. I knew what had just happened. The old guy had a pretty satisfied look on his face, when I finally did look.

[:-thumbu][:-hspin][:-thumbu]

Thanks John. That's what I thought (neutrals/grounds), but since electical isn't my forte, I thought i'd bounce it off the brain trust, before I go down that road. And, you feel the ground conductor from tfhe main panel to the rod should go away, now that it's become a sub-panel? That was the other thing that I suspected was the case. Can the main disconnect in the panel remain, or does that need to be removed as well? Although, I don't imagine it can hurt anything, I suspect it's supposed to go away.

Home built in 1989 One 200 Amp breaker panel with a 200 main disconnect within the panel. They add a 125 Amp sub-panel dedicated to a generator. It is set up properly including a transfer switch. They add a second main disconnect outside (maybe it was required). The new disconnect is grounded to the same rod as the main panel. Has the main breaker panel now become a "sub-panel", requiring that the neutrals be isolated until they get back to the outside main disconnect? If not, what makes the difference; the fact that the main panel is grounded to the rod? the presence of the main breaker still in the main service panel? Both? Is everything sharing that same rod a problem? I haven't seen this specific modification before. What think ye?

If it could me mounted on the outside, thermostatically controlled and enclosed in a cabinet that concealed the fact that it was a hair dryer, I'd think it was brilliant and patentable. Motor, by Revlon...

Click to Enlarge 30.25 KB (Same builder as "A little off the sides, please") This is really becoming an entertaining inspection...

That's how the building department insists it be done, but the unsightliness of it drives me nuts. [:-weepn] (We always used to install that very flashing in conjunction with weeps, but we held it back about a 1/4" from the face of the bed joint, which I always thought looked far better and accomplished the same thing. Apparently, it's become a lack of trust issue between builders and inspection departments - sad..) The flashing is required to extend to the exterior. Holding it back 1/4" does not acheive the same thing. That's what I hear, I'm just not sure I buy it. Even when it comes all the way through, it still has a ton of material on it - a lot of compression. So, I'm not able to imagine an appreciable difference - splitting hairs, IMHO. [:-wiltel] Believe it or not, the 1/4" deal used to be the standard detail even in government work - schools, prisons, etc. This hanging it all out deal is relatively new around her. It's a personal thing. I just don't like it - ugly... It doesn't have to hang out. It just has to come to the surface. OK, I can live with that. I just invision Thomas Jefferson coming back to ask, "What's that?" [:-tophat]

That's how the building department insists it be done, but the unsightliness of it drives me nuts. [:-weepn] (We always used to install that very flashing in conjunction with weeps, but we held it back about a 1/4" from the face of the bed joint, which I always thought looked far better and accomplished the same thing. Apparently, it's become a lack of trust issue between builders and inspection departments - sad..) The flashing is required to extend to the exterior. Holding it back 1/4" does not acheive the same thing. That's what I hear, I'm just not sure I buy it. Even when it comes all the way through, it still has a ton of material on it - a lot of compression. So, I'm not able to imagine an appreciable difference - splitting hairs, IMHO. [:-wiltel] Believe it or not, the 1/4" deal used to be the standard detail even in government work - schools, prisons, etc. This hanging it all out deal is relatively new around her. It's a personal thing. I just don't like it - ugly...

That's how the building department insists it be done, but the unsightliness of it drives me nuts. [:-weepn] (We always used to install that very flashing in conjunction with weeps, but we held it back about a 1/4" from the face of the bed joint, which I always thought looked far better and accomplished the same thing. Apparently, it's become a lack of trust issue between builders and inspection departments - sad..)

2008 - our local building inspection department at work...[:-weepn]

Every now and the you run across something that just defies all logic. [:-bigeyes Click to Enlarge 94.38 KB Click to Enlarge 50.24 KB Click to Enlarge 35.7 KB Click to Enlarge 35.76 KB

I have never forgotten the sign I saw in an Esso station, when I was a kid... yeah.. Esso... I'm old... It said, "We aim to keep this bathroom clean. Your aim will help too."

Well, I've never gnawed on wood, but I do remember seeing squirrels at Woodstock now that you mention it...

They're persistent little devils. I have a perfect hole in my wood sided and framed chimney from one.