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Hi All, Sorry everyone, Daniel put together some more information about the FPE Stab-Lok issue and had posted this earlier today. He meant for it to be in the electrical forum but posted it to the Latest News forum where it went to my cache. Thinking he meant it for the home page, I'd inadvertently posted it to the front page and locked it. I've just duplicated it here so folks can discuss the issue some more in this venue if they care to. Thank you Daniel for all that you do toward eventual recognition of this thing we do as a true "profession." ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

By Daniel Friedman THE FPE Stab-Lok HAZARD The hazards of Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-Lok panels have been studied and documented thoroughly, have been the subject of national home inspection seminars and conferences, published in newsletters, and published in the Journal of Light Construction. Basically we have circuit breakers that fail to trip at a rate thousands of times worse than normal industry standards, a bus that can fail to retain the circuit breakers, and possibly other defects that extended across the product life of this line. FPE Stab-Lok PANELS SHOULD BE REPLACED Because an FPE Stab-Lok circuit breaker has a very unusually high rate of failure to trip (and because there are other bus and panel design defects and failures) these electrical panels should be replaced. Period. FPE RESEARCH More than 20 years of independent research and field reports as well as US Government documents(from the SEC) and a recent court finding in New Jersey confirm that the the company acted fraudulently and that the FPE Stab-Lok hazard is a real one - breakers fail to trip in response to an overcurrent, up to 60% of the time. Home inspectors and owners should see: The FPE Hazards Website http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm Inspectors are welcome to print hard copies of any pages of this website that they wish to provide to their clients, home owners, realtors, or their state authorities. FPE REPORT The latest FPE Stab-Lok Panel technical report is in .pdf format and can be downloaded directly using the link just below. If you are having trouble accessing this file just shoot me an email using the address at the bottom of this post and I'll send a copy to you directly. http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/FPECircui ... 070525.PDF If the .PDF form is too slow to download, an older copy of this report is at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpestlouis.htm Home inspectors anywhere are invited to print the technical report and/or pages from the website to give to clients in homes where an FPE Stab-Lok electrical panel is found. FIELD REPORTS OF FPE Stab-Lok failures See http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpefire.htm HOW TO IDENTIFY FPE Stab-Lok EQUIPMENT See http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpeid.htm FIELD INSPECTIONS/ELECTRICIANS "OK" No visual inspection and in fact not even electrical testing in the field can reliably identify the hazards at a specific panel. Worse, testing these panels in the field is dangerous and can actually INCREASE the risk of a future breaker's failure to trip. This problem, added to lack of familiarity of the issue among some electricians, is why it is unreliable to ask for and rely on an electricians "inspection" of an FPE Stab-Lok electrical panel. A list of electricians who are indeed familiar with and can replace FPE panels is maintained at http://www.inspect-ny.com/pointers.htm#electric - listings are free to qualified electricians. UP TO NOW OUR FPE PANEL HAS BEEN FINE The observation by some owners that "up to now we've never had a problem" is unreliable. Most circuit breakers are never called-on to trip due to an overcurrent. It's like riding in a car with a seatbelt connected just by a thread. Up to now everything seems just fine, but then, you've not been in a crash which would call on the seatbelt for protection. The panel does not itself initiate a problem; rather it is likely to fail to protect the building wiring (and thus the building and its occupants) when an overcurrent (that should trip the breaker) occurs. Properly put we call this a LATENT SAFETY HAZARD. REPLACEMENT FPE Stab-Lok CIRCUIT BREAKERS Are not recommended. See the discussion at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/FPEBreakers.htm for more details. REPLACEMENTS FOR FPE Stab-Lok ELECTRICAL PANELS The typical cost to cure - a new electrical panel - is a miniscule portion of the value of a home and in no circumstances should be considered a "show stopper" in a real estate transaction. Further, home inspectors should have no position about who should pay for such a repair (such is unethical). The panel should be replaced, no matter who pays for it. Replacement options at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpereplace.htm include methods that for some cases can cut the typical replacement cost in half. CANADIAN FPE Federal Pioneer Stab-Lok circuit breakers and panels were and may still be sold (under Schneider Electric) in Canada. I have definitely had failure reports from the Canadian version of this product but reports have been few compared with in the U.S. We don't know if this is due to differences in the product (there has been one FPE recall in Canada and Schneider engineers declined to comment on whether or not they'd made improvements or changes to the Canadian product) or due to differences in Canadian electrical installation practices or other factors. Candian Federal Pioineer Panels are discussed at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/FederalPioneer.htm FEDERAL PACIFIC ELECTRIC PANELS Fires Waiting to Happen - article by DF - see http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpe.html CONFLICTS OF INTEREST The ONLY source of claims that there is "no hazard" with this product have in my experience originated with folks with a serious conflict of interest: an attorney charged with protecting FPE's remains (the company is long out of business) and EXXON against a product liability suit, and secondarily, some real estate agents and some real estate sellers, wishing to avoid a possible safety issue being raised regarding a home have made the (unsupportable) claim that the product is not defective. I am an independent building failures researcher who has studied this topic for many years and like active home inspectors, I'm required to be without conflict of interest in reporting (I have no financial relationship with the product nor with its replacement). #### ABOUT THE AUTHOR: Daniel Friedman is an educator, author, and a building failures researcher. Friedman combined education and experience from careers in computer engineering design and new construction, and historic Building restoration to build a professional practice as a Building failures researcher, writer, publisher, home inspector, and consultant specializing in construction, environmental testing, and inspections. Friedman's time is divided between performing home inspections/sick Building investigations - a consumer protection service for owners or home buyers - and writing, teaching, researching about related topics. Want to learn more about Zinsco panels? Just click on any of Dan's links above or join Dan and others who are discussing them now on TIJ's forums.

Pre-purchase home inspections are growing in popularity in Australia and are done to an Australian Standard that is similar in many respects to an ASTM standard. In this article, an Australian Architects association encourages consumers to never pass up an inspection. To read more, click here.

This story is about Alden E. Gibson, RHI, of Breslau, ONT who received the 2007 ASHI Special Service Award at the recent ASHI convention. To read the entire article click here.

Here's a million-dollar home that needs to be razed. Hopefully, this is one that nobody - especially the home inspector - could have predicted. Click Here!

Hi, Phillip, I too am struggling to understand exactly what it is that you are asking. Simply showing us a picture of a joint between a couple of framing members, without any background or better photographs, doesn't give us anything to go on. I can't be sure, but it looks like you/re fishing for someone to come to the same conclusion you did, whatever that was. However, without establishing photos and a better idea of what we're looking at, that's impossible. Why don't you just tell us what's going on and give us further background about what we're seeing in this pictures, so that we can voice a more informed opinion? OT - OF!!! M.

It's by design... if you see a dotted line around the image it will open in a new window because it's over a certain size and is resized for the screen. The images above are below that size and just display normally. Michael Brown DevWave Software Inc. Huh, I learn something new every day around here. OT - OF!!! M.

They're beneficial creatures. If the owner provides a better place for them, they won't be in the attic. http://habitat.ms11.net//bat/bathome.htm http://www.batcon.org/bhra/economyhouse.html http://www.batcon.org/bhra/bhcriter.html http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/wild ... allbat.htm http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/wild ... ohnbat.htm http://www.nps.gov/archive/cave/bathouse.htm http://www.batworld.org/bcs/BWbathouseplans.pdf ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

The stain is from oil rubbing off their fur as they squeeze up in there and then dust collects on the oily surface. Have 'em stuff those gaps with steel wool and then build a bat box and secure it to the side of the house. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

Huh, Leave it to Les - always looking out for the ladies. Yeah, now that you mention it, Bonnie has been pretty quiet lately. Maybe she got fed up with us lazy HI's who started her course and have been kind of lackadaisical about finishing the work. This being the slow, slow time of the year, it's probably a good idea to get back on that and finish it up now. OT - OF!!! M.

I knew he couldn't resist for long, Watch out for Les, Jodi, he's kind of a lady killer stalker. OT - OF!!! M.

Hi Les, Heck, that's been in TIJ's document download section for years! Good reference. OT - OF!!! M.

Why re-invent the wheel? The ASHI standard states it nicely. Maybe they do, but I wasn't referring to ASHI. I think there are more independents operating out here than there are association biased anyway. There should be some kind of generic description for the entire gig that folks can use, instead of having to say, I use the ASHI, NAHI, A.I.I., interNACHI, CREIA, etc., SOP. OT - OF!!! M.

Hi, Check out this discussion of the causes of ice damming and cures: https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... hTerms=ice OT - OF!!! M.

Nah, I don't think so. If anyone is going to kill this thread, it oughta be me since I started it. I'm not ready to do that yet. This is obviously a testy issue, but it bears discussing every once in a while because inspectors do get into trouble over it and because what can impact one of us can impact all of us. There's a reason why one learns a lot on TIJ - it's because we try (not always successfully, mind you) to keep ourselves in check and not make it our priority to win every argument. Sometimes folks are going to believe what they believe, so there's no use making a single argument the hill you die on. We've had folks that couldn't accept that in the past, who just decided to take their toys and go home, but most folks here keep things friendly and it doesn't become a test of wills - that's the way we like it. Let's keep these discussions going and try not to take things so personally. So, if one were to create a standard of practice for probing for wood decay and/or insect damage - one that wouldn't get an inspector nuked - what would it look like? Anyone want to take a stab at it? ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

I woulldn't remove and replace it unless there's going to be work done in the attic that's going to damage it or necessitate removing it. It won't trap moisture - it's permeable. Sure, it's a mess, but they could blow in some fiberglass wool over the whole thing to make it consistent in depth and it'd probably be fine. Don't get hung up on the UF in it, that off-gassed 3-4 weeks after it was placed decades ago. Check this out. OT - OF!!! M.

Hmmm, Uploaded for me as a PDF first time. Oh well. OT - OF!!! M.

Good advice, Also, examine the service stickers on the side of the furnace to see how far back the service records go and look for the ANSI date on the labeling to put you within a year or two of manufacture. OT - OF!!! M.

Jim's right, I've seen 1920's and even 1930's homes here without ridge boards. It's pretty common in the bungalows. Jeez, we're always behind the rest of the darned country - except for compugeek stuff, that is. OT - OF!!! M.

Dang! Now I gotta start minding my manners! That's not too hard to do. Once you get used to how to discipher the data plates, you say something like: The furnace was manufactured in XXXX. It's a gas furnace, so it has an expected service life of about 20 years, under perfect conditions. This furnace doesn't look like it's been well cared for, so there's no way to accurately predict how long it will last - it might last another 15 years or it might fail as I'm backing my car out of the driveway. Get it serviced by an HVAC pro annually and replace it when the pro tells you it time to do so. OT - OF!!! M.

Note for rookies: Sometimes some of the old timers here will make tongue-in-cheek comments, so be very careful to ensure the comment makes perfect sense before you accept it as gospel. We now return you to your normal discussion channel.

Hi All, Since Steve and Jim took us there, you might be interested in this. https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... rms=woeste I probably should move stuff from the front page archives into the regular forum archives so folks can find it more easily. OT - OF!!! M.

Sure, it was a link to an article on the Mike Holt forum. I found it in about 2 minutes using the advanced search feature. http://www.mikeholt.com/newsletters.php ... tterID=298 ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike

Hi, Understood. I don't see a lot of AC systems. Seems to me I remember being taught that it's OK to oversize the coil for dehumidificatio purposes, though. Is that right? OT - OF!!! M.

I wouldn't worry about it. Do you try to calculate whether the ducting for the hot air system is sized correctly? Probably not, that's not our function. We don't engineer the systems - we only evaluate their condition once they're in place. We do not have a duty to do any engineering calculations. I can understand writing it if it's something blatantly obvious, like a 3 inch duct feeding a huge room on a low-velocity system, but I wouldn't even waste my time trying to calculate something like that. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike