PAbernathy

Hey Guys, Here is a link to some GREAT information....Hope you all enjoy ! http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/series.htm#afci

Hey Guys, Interesting article I will post a link to below. Found it very interesting and a good read on why GFCI's fail and so on....( interesting they listed it as Why CFCI's fail )....strange...anyway nice read. http://www.cdc.gov/elcosh/docs/d0200/d0 ... 00285.html

Basic Electrical Theory Questions Just a little refresher on how the ole' electrical stuff works....for educatonal purposes only.....It's just FUN ! 1 What is the name for the flow of electrons in an electric circuit? A. Voltage B. Resistance C. Capacitance D. Current 2 What is the basic unit of electric current? A. The volt B. The watt C. The ampere D. The ohm 3 Which instrument would you use to measure electric current? A. An ohmmeter B. A wavemeter C. A voltmeter D. An ammeter 4 What is the name of the pressure that forces electrons to flow through a circuit? A. Magnetomotive force, or inductance B. Electromotive force, or voltage C. Farad force, or capacitance D. Thermal force, or heat 5 What is the basic unit of electromotive force (EMF)? A. The volt B. The watt C. The ampere D. The ohm 6 How much voltage does an automobile battery usually supply? A. About 12 volts B. About 30 volts C. About 120 volts D. About 240 volts 7 How much voltage does a wall outlet usually supply (in the US)? A. About 12 volts B. About 30 volts C. About 120 volts D. About 480 volts 8 Which instrument would you use to measure electric potential or electromotive force? A. An ammeter B. A voltmeter C. A wavemeter D. An ohmmeter 9 What limits the current that flows through a circuit for a particular applied DC voltage? A. Reliance B. Reactance C. Saturation D. Resistance 10 What is the basic unit of resistance? A. The volt B. The watt C. The ampere D. The ohm 11 Which instrument would you use to measure resistance? A. An ammeter B. A voltmeter C. An ohmmeter D. A wavemeter 12 What are three good electrical conductors? A. Copper, gold, mica B. Gold, silver, wood C. Gold, silver, aluminum D. Copper, aluminum, paper 13 What are four good electrical insulators? A. Glass, air, plastic, porcelain B. Glass, wood, copper, porcelain C. Paper, glass, air, aluminum D. Plastic, rubber, wood, carbon 14 What does an electrical insulator do? A. It lets electricity flow through it in one direction B. It does not let electricity flow through it C. It lets electricity flow through it when light shines on it D. It lets electricity flow through it So.....How did you do no these BASIC electrical theory questions?

Hey guys, Though you may find this useful. It is really a safety check for your clients and you just may find some useful information on it, I have convered it to PDF and uploaded. checkl.pdf

I have received a few e-mails from HI's wanting to know a good resource to explain when the GFCI was introduced and how it has evolved. I came across this neat PDF and figured I would share it with you to help HI's explain to clients how the GFCI has evolved in regards to safety issues and so on to clients that lets say do not have a GFCI in their bathroom or kitchen counters and so on. This kinda is neat to know...... http://www.mikeholt.com/documents/nec/p ... _page2.pdf

If the remodel is being done under a permit and the local AHJ has adopted the 1999 (1/1/2002) to 2005 then it is required the bedrooms be on AFCI. An important note to also consider is on effieciency condos....if the sleeping area is also the living area...then the AFCI would technically apply to that location as well. Erby is correct in the BEST way to know this is to call your local AHJ and ask them 1.) Which NEC they are observing and 2.) are they observing 210.12 for ARC Fault's in the bedrooms and this should give you the answer. Now if someone says NO they are not required yet they have adopted the 1999(1/1/2002 ) thru 2005, request this in written form....any ammendment or local addition or subtraction of an adopted code would need to be ratified and in written form...regardless of what the AHJ would like to enforce.

Hello All, I do quite a few 320/400 Meter installations and we use (2) 200A panels all the time. Typically I see 200CL meter inserts in 100A meter enclosures, 200A meter enclosures and have seen them in 400A meter enclosures. As jim has stated what you need to be aware of is the installation of a newer looking electrical panel setup and notice that the meter setup may have no changed....then be sure to always take a closer look at the service....slow down and see if someone did an upgrade without permits and even contacting the POCO to begin with. Sad to say....I consult to many AHJ's and you would be surprised....

Felt I should explain HOW it would be done IF I was the electrical contractor doing it... 1.) The panels are being Back-fed so they need to have a support designed to hold in the breaker but then again I would not have done a back fed here. I would have ran a single common GEC to the Ground Rod(s) and ran it to the FIRST enclosure....then I would have run a TAP out of the second enclosure and connected it to the GEC going into the first enclosure.....but thats me... Thats what is so messed up about this section of the NEC...and the 2008 NEC clears it up ALOT..... Basically most people will simply run to the first enclosure OCPD since they are technically on the same single service ( ignore the fact it has (2) meters...because of the location ) and then simply bonded from one enclosure to the other...but they better make sure the bonding jumper is sized right......thats where they mess up. Since the ability to TAP is explained in the NEC as optional no one really can STICK their finger on the exact intent as in the end it is all considered connected at the meter enclosure in this installation......however I happen to think a bond connection between enclosures is needed......and from what I can gather is not in place. Now...since we are only talking a Ground Rod in your images...a # 6 CU is all that would be needed to the Rods....so technically if you wanted to do the tap method...simple bring the # 6 CU into the first panel and then run a # 6 CU from the second panel out and SPLIT BOLT it to the GEC going into the first panel....the one going into the FIRST panel needs to be continuous ( with exceptions ) but the tap to it from the second one does not need to be continuous to the rod...that is why the split bolt is allowed.... Now the bond to the water pipe is done here technically since it is all the same service and they share the water piping system...anything other would create a parallel path and is not really needed...so that is fine to the first panel...remember electrons are trying to get to the source...and in this case...the source is shared...so it's all good....

(2) Buildings of Multiple Occupancy In buildings of multiple occupancy where the metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure for the individual occupancies is metallically isolated from all other occupancies by use of nonmetallic water piping, the metal water piping system(s) for each occupancy shall be permitted to be bonded to the equipment grounding terminal of the panelboard or switchboard enclosure (other than service equipment) supplying that occupancy. The bonding jumper shall be sized in accordance with Table 250.122. The INTENT is this... Section 250.104(A)(2) recognizes that the increased use of nonmetallic water piping mains can result in the interior metal piping system of a multiple-occupancy building to be isolated from ground and from the other occupancies. Therefore, the water pipe is permitted to be bonded to the panelboard or switchboard that serves only that particular occupancy. The bonding jumper, in this case, is permitted to be sized according to Table 250.122, based on the size of the main overcurrent device supplying the occupancy. So in your case it is a common water piping system and could go back to the common GEC that is running to the first panel enclosure. But it is important for those out there who run into a system where the piping is seperate that this must be taken info considering in the information I posted above. Gary if you or anyone ever is in the middle of an inspection and has a question please call......I carry my phone with me everywhere when doing seminars or in the ditch....Sometimes I have a hard time typing what I am trying to convey and it works much better if someone is really questioning something they can always give me a call.... However again I would like to see a bond between those panels to create a loop for fauly current in case one becomes disconnected but what are the odds...

Thanks Chicago.....yeah gotta watch out for that spam... I also wanted to explain why I like to see a bond between these enclosures..... 1.) if the "Grounded" conductor comes loose within the enclosure the bonding path to the second panel becomes a pathway for the fault current and still allow the operation of the OCPD..... In the image posted alot depends on the design of the system when it comes to bonding it...as if each level is separated by lets say metal piping and a non-metalic jumper gets between these systems...then you would need it's own individual bond back to it's own enclosure.....many variables in this setup and we need to know all the factors involved. Lastly I think the 2008 NEC will clear this up alot but many people also believe that in the setup you have shown it would require a seperate GE from the second enclosure to the GEC as well....but it is looked at in many ways but factually they are tied together at the meter enclosure...so they are technically tied together conductivly at that point.

I would be very interested in knowing where those " Big Honkin Conductors" go to within the system itself so we can look at it furthur.

Gary, I do find some others issues in that panel if you do care to know what they are...but I will address your question. 1.) Basically the understanding of that " Big Honkin Copper" is the miscoception to its function if it is going to the GEC. The only real purpose in that connection is Lightning, High Voltage Surge and High Voltage Shunts for a lack of a better term and to aid in the POCO as well IF this is going to the GE.........it is very important to know that it plays no role in the fault or OCPD function of the system if again it is going to the GE. I will try to keep this basic.........the function of the grounded conductor is to create the return path for the electrons to low and is a low impedance path as such...the earth is not....while it could flow on it during a parallel environment it is not a good conductor and plays no role in protecting the inside components or personal safety...just needed to get that out of the way. However the "Grounded" conductor itself plays a very important role in allowing the OCPD to function properly. (D) Grounding Electrode Conductor Taps. Where a service consists of more than a single enclosure as permitted in 230.40, Exception No. 2, it shall be permitted to connect taps to the grounding electrode conductor. Each such tap conductor shall extend to the inside of each such enclosure. The grounding electrode conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.66, but the tap conductors shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with the grounding electrode conductors specified in 250.66 for the largest conductor serving the respective enclosures. The tap conductors shall be connected to the grounding electrode conductor in such a manner that the grounding electrode conductor remains without a splice. Now....Section 230.40 ex. 2 is what firstly would permit this installation. Now personally I look at this picture and ( not knowing where exactly the stranded copper conductors on the left are going ) feel it should have a bond between each panel OTHER than using the "Grounded" connection at the meter enclosure....but over the years that section of the NEC has been so screwed up it is not until 2008 that it is being revamped.... The NEC says that all enclosures likely to carry fault current path should be tied together so the debate is...are they tied together via the "Grounded" conductor at the meter enclosure on this type of setup....probably are and many will argue that they are......personally I like to see a bonding jumper between these enclosures as they may be separate in function they share a common service and a common fault current path back to the source. Man....this is hard to explain in type....this is why I said....anyone feel free to call me 540-607-0116 if better explanations are needed....I get calls from all over the country daily. So the arguement is......is it ok to run the GEC to the Meter or only the (1) service panel in question here....based on current language it does not disallow it. However the other issues come into play here is are the water piping systems different...are they separated....and if so is that piping system for the panel on the RIGHT tied properly back to it's own panel..... very hard to tell with these pictures and I hope this has not been confusing...please by all means call me if it is because I am typing it between many phone calls.

This is a single service, the meter enclosure is a 320A Conin. and a 400A Non-Cont. enclosure. Chances are the service calculation came up as under 300A or they used the optional method to decrease it below 300A or simply to effect the installation, only the electrician knows this. AS for sizing this service you really should deal in Capacity and Rating......this enclosure will have a capacity based on the combined components of the system based. Now, you have to post the size of the SE Conductors, Panel Rating, OCPD Rating and (2) others we will throw out......because it is latteral and you can't see them. This service has a rating of 300A based on the weakest link designation....based on what he has posted....the capacity could be different but in this case 300A based on the enclosure ratings has to govern here without the other information. Check out my basic video on this....simplified -http://www.theelectricalguru.com/video.html Also if new construction make sure they re-identify those while conductors going to the breakers...... I did not look at the images any furthur than those issues.

bobe, When you are looking at 3-phase systems as a HI you are looking to ensure the proper bonding and grounding methods are taking place and in many older systems the understood concepts of proper bonding methods smply did not take place so keep those things in mind when viewing. Basically, since you are doing a visual inspection you are looking for the same typical issues in the panel enclosure as you would in a standard dwelling as the simple fact you have a 3 phase system does not negate the fact the other prinicples of safety and wiring should still apply. If you find yourself STUCK questioning something feel free to give me a call......

Attend as much as you can on Electrical Training. It will only make you a better inspector.

So Paul, If I understand you correctly, NACHI does have different levels of membership? There is "qualify to join" then there is FULL Membership? This goes against the.... oh forget it. Darren Well my fine fellow...I can't explain it unless you finish your sentence...goes against the....WHAT?..

AGREED...rather than BASH who is easier or harder.....let more and more inspectors work together and HONOR who they happen to choose to belong to....dont judge the inspector because of their personal choice. One Team - One Fight....Could not agree more !

Heck..they are all easy to join....a bit MIFFED as Mr. Pattersons remarks but alas I wont go into that. if you join NACHI you will have to take the online exam to even qualify to join, then the electrical online course, the roofing online course, pass a few other online tests and then and only then will you be granted actual FULL membership. I do not see this as any different than any other of the associations.....they just classify them as Full Members or associates...a bit of a berate if you ask me...but alas I dont make up that process either.

it is quite possible that this panel was subject to rain or moisture during the rough in stage that caused this, I for the life of me do not understand why they would put them in during that stage but alas....i have seen some strange things. Also they could have very well be sitting in the electricians truck for some time also and they figured...what the heck..I will use them on this job. I agree with Jeff here in that we need to determine if this rust came from moisture getting into the panel as it stands now....as for clearance....If it is in a finished wall the 1/4 airspace you are refering too is a moot point....however if installed in a damp location and so on...most panels now come with the raised back mount points...providing the 1/4 detachement needed. I dont see any signs of water discoloring on the panel itself....so I would venture to say they are truck stock.... Now if this panel is a Type 1 and located in a wet or damp location......it would be a violation of NEC 110.11 as it would need to be in a Dry Location and for "indoor use only" Now using a cleaning solution on that could possibly do more damage to the plastic and working parts of the breaker.

lol....the switch must have fed a Time Machine....as the poster is gone to another space in TIME !

Sorry I have not been back in some time..I see others have answered the basic of your questions. Take a look at 210.8(A)(2) in that it states the following: 210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. FPN: See 215.9 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel on feeders. (A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in(1) through ( shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. (1) Bathrooms (2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use Exception No. 1: Receptacles that are not readily accessible. Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connectedin accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(. So basically the way the code looks at it...if it is a duplex that is not dedicated for that appliance..lets say one plug is used for a freezer and the other is open to anything else...it would need to be GFCI. If it is behind and not readly accessible...no GFCI needed... Point is on that example is...half that plug is FREE to be used like any other in a garage..and thus needs to be GFCI. SO if it is a dedicated branch circuit and a duplex feeding lets say 1/2 to a Fridge and the other to a freezer...no GFCI needed. Hope that explains it.

Lol.....(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces Of the 210.8 Section...it pertains to the recepts to serve the countertop surfaces...the islands within the kitchen are considered counter spaces as well and is why the receptacles are required int eh first place....but the dedicated space issue in regards to the kitchen GFCI has nothing to do with it.....the GFCI reference has to do with counter space receptacles and those to serve it. Your other areas and gargage and so on are clear and fine...Just remember if the garage has a duplex receptacle and only one appliance is serving it...and one it open...technically at that point the receptacle can be served by another item and based on the NEC it would need to be GFCI protected.......unless again it is not readily accessible in which case it would be a moot point. Here is the info per the NEC on your Garage portion: (2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a #64258;oor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use Exception No. 1 to (2): Receptacles that are not readily accessible. Exception No. 2 to (2): A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(. Receptacles installed under the exceptions to 210.8(A)(2)shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G) SOOO...just remember if TWO appliances are NOT using the duplex receptacle as the article refers to....it MUST meet the NEC requirements for GFCI.....just some electrical education....ENJOY !

hmmmm...I think we said that...indirectly in order to keep it brief...but thanks..lol....I know what the NEC says about it..lol But in your second paragraph.....the GFCI not being required on the Fridge in a kitchen has nothing to do with dedicated space per say....it is not on the counter so it would not be required to be GFCI anyway...as is none of the other receptacles in the kitchen, dining room and pantry......if not on the counter......just some FYI...

Jim, Yep most certainly.....most of the time we feed the fridge and hit the first one the counter and place the GFCI at that point...atleast for (1) of the (2) required small appliance circuits.

Not sure if I read this right but I wanted to clarrify for those that might not understand it. In the kitchen the counter tops are the only requirement for GFCI, now the fridge can be on that counter top circuit or it can have its own dedicated line which BTW can be a 15A dedicated feed to the fridge if the client so desires. While the fridge would probably be removed from a GFCI requirement anyway due to its dedicated space...thats not the real reason it is not on GFCI...the reason is it is in the kitchen but NOT on the countertop so it does not have to be GFCI. Can it be GFCI...sure...nothing says it cant and the modern GFCI's today will not trip so easy on a standard fridge..so I would not worry about that as much....but again the fridge is not required to be on GFCI period......but if it was...that would be fine also.