PAbernathy

I've been calling those things "terminal bars" and the individual holes in them, terminals. I've been calling the conductors that carry the breakers, "bus bars" Are the bars that the neutral and grounds terminate in bus bars or terminal bars? I've been meaning to find out for a year. While your at it...recommend they also install the requirements of 250.53(D)(1) and (D)(2) and then of course comply to 250.56 IE: Supplimental Grounding Electrodes and their associated requirements. Always worth a suggestion if the option arrises....

Very nice Jim.........excellent and well formulated advice.

I guess I am missing something on this one because I am not impressed by it ( Sorry guys....just my opinion ). However, I can't really see the connection of the grounded "neutral" conductors to tell if their was actual seperation at all since a jumper could exist that we can't see or the buss bar itself may be mounted to the panel in a way it is not isolated and so on. I doubt that connection for the EGC's is designed for it's use...why not mount a grounding buss to the side....just as easy and would have better fit to the ANSI standards.....

I would most certainly call this out IF you found it. People under estimate the dangers to a DIYer when a panel is improperly labeled or labeled wrong on purpose. Their is a reason for every requirement in the National Electrical Code regardless of the date of construction. The reason is CHANGE and with change we find errors in understanding, concepts that are better learned each cycle and an ongoing debate over things that are a minimum safety standard. Yes......if this was found and someone paid for a recent remodel I would call it out.....MOST CERTAINLY !

Not to mention I am sure those lugs shown are not rated for more than a single conductor anyway so it would be yet another problem.

I believe you are all refering to the following: 400.8 Uses Not Permitted. Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following: (1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure (2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors (3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings (4) Where attached to building surfaces Exception to (4): Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.56(B) (5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings (6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code (7) Where subject to physical damage

opps.......sorry...that post was like a YEAR old...my bad!

411.4 Locations Not Permitted. Lighting systems operating at 30 volts or less shall not be installed in the locations described in 411.4(A) and 411.4(B). (A) Where concealed or extended through a building wall unless permitted in (1) or (2): (1) Installed using any of the wiring methods specified in Chapter 3 (2) Installed using wiring supplied by a listed Class 2 power source and installed in accordance with 725.52 (B) Where installed within 3.0 m (10 ft) of pools, spas, fountains, or similar locations, unless permitted by Article 680. So lets look at 680 for a sec.... Nope...enough looking as the modifications of 680 do not remove the issues of the above section. Since these lights are and will not be above the pool height to meet anything regarding 680....the 10' distance stands.

Yep..I did...in fact I did (3) seminars at it. Class Act all the way !

Joe....the contact on Holt's in PM about the old books....I was goign to reply but got side tracked and simply did not go back into the PM to see it.....and once you look once it does not pop up at you anymore so I kinda dropped the ball. I probably would not have gotten any...I bought so many off some auction sites the WIFE has be on CREDIT LOCK...

Hey Joe..good to see you.....( sorry about the book thing..I got side tracked ) I think what joe is saying is the locknut itself is ok...the connector itself needs to be listed for wet locations. What compounds the issue is like in the first picture joe posted they used a locknut outside and before the actual waterproof connector..so the connector screwed into it just before it is not rated for wet locations at all....compounding the problem... The entire connector needs to be rated for a wet location....would you agree Joe? I think what it is trying to stop is the " what ever I have in the truck" mentality.....

Do you wanna know how Electricity works...I am JUST long winded enough to explain it if ya want me too....

Yeah the closer you are to the panel and the common connection between the Grounded and Grounding conductors throws off the suretest as explained in the manual. However, in regards to BX Cable.....it is a good tool to use because of the wide mis-use of BX as an EGC when it is not actually rated as such.....so also ( as you said ) give BX an extra look see.

Scott......good information never DIES.....another good tip about a sure test is for the G-N test...if the G-N measurement is above 2 amps it tells you somewhere in the system the client has an issue of too much current traveling on the low imp. fault current path......and generally means a wiring issue.....if you are going to use a Suretest...get familiar guys with all the things it can tell you as there are many... I wanted to do a class on it for an Association but was told it was way beyond the SOP.....I guess my point was to educate not speculate but regardless I nixed the class. Ground-Neutral Voltage Measurement There is only one test within the Ground-Neutral Voltage menu. In a singlephase circuit, high ground-neutral voltage indicates excessive leakage between the neutral and ground conductors, excessive leakage onto the grounding conductor can create a shock hazard and improper function of the system at the device..... I have attached the SureTest manual because you really need to look at the charts and learn EVERYTHING a suretest can tell you IF you are going to be using one... Download Attachment: suretestmanual.pdf 85.49 KB

lol....I just don't know what to say...lol.....I am however very glad jim made this statement: "It'll provide a low-resistance path back to the origin of the circuit. Current will still flow through all available paths back to the source in proportion to the resistance of the path. If the receptacle is well-grounded, most of the current from the case will travel back that way." Wise man that Jim.....you are all lucky you have a MOD that ACTUALLY understands how electricity works....

I agree....2/0 AL is only rated for a 150A Service if it is the primary service panel.....now if you are stating their is a 200A main somewhere else feeding this panel...and their are other utilities coming into the dwelling from that same location then they have other problems.....but alas I wont go into detail...but 2/0 AL is not for a 200A service....

should also be noted that if this panel is being done with a "back-fed" breaker that it needs to be secured to the panelboard with a secure method...not a normal standard breaker installation. (F) Back-Fed Devices Plug-in-type overcurrent protection devices or plug-in type main lug assemblies that are backfed and used to terminate field-installed ungrounded supply conductors shall be secured in place by an additional fastener that requires other than a pull to release the device from the mounting means on the panel. Among the other things....

Well electrical wise...I see lack of bushings and improper bonding methods all over these images......also while the gutter is an acceptacle practice I can't tell from the picture if the opp. wall clearance is being maintained....but alas.....

Mark, In question # 1 the answer is easy...NO, the connection between the grounded and grounding conductors on the same terminal buss should only take place at the main disconnection location for this dwelling, All additional remote distribution panels need to have seperation of the grounded and grounding conductors. In question # 2 has many varibles....The best way to do this would be since most residential applications that are single family will only allow a single drop ( in your case ) and most POCO's only want a single meter location ( with expections ) the best thing to do would be to change the setup to a 200A meter can, redo the mast ( if overhead ) and have the 200A meter can feed the two exterior main disconnects which make these the grouped disconnection locations and then the remote distribution panels are fine.... Thats my opinion for what it's worth....

Sorry I do not have time to view the images right now but let me say something on the FPE Fuse Style panels.....while fuses are usually outdated in that it makes it hard to add additional circuits...fuses themselves are very reliable and ironically FPE made some good fuse panels ( except the fuse stabloks )....but the only real reported issue with FPE is in regards to the breakers and stablok design associated with it.

Yep, The POCO tends to run to their own BEAT most of the time.

Ahhh....I don't have either....

Well to be totally honest with you......back before the 1984 NEC it was a common practice by some electricians. I never did it as I always felt large draw outlets needed dedicated circuits...( ie: bathroom, Kitchen and so on... ) Now in regards to the kitchen counter one....They just need to be aware of it but in regards to being a safety condition...it is not really as the receptacle is protected by GFCI and that is about as protected as you will get. While it is poor wiring practice and important to let them know so they know WHY may trip a breaker and/or GFCI reset and why it may happen. I just got a call the other day for a service call to a counter top receptacle tripping because the client wanted a microwave and toaster to run on the same countertop....just not possible but they wanted it so we had to add another circuit to their counter.......there was (2) circuits at the counter but one of them only fed (2) receptacles on a counter they never used.......and refused to move the microwave to that counter so it met the NEC requirements but was not good practicle wiring design. So basically if you see this, you do have an issue where they need to be aware that the GFCI could trip and how they need to reset it but not really a safety concern. Just poor design of the electrical circuits. While it is in todays code....it is more for capacity issues and so on. What is important is that they are GFCI protected.

Here....If you are going to inspect many Pool and Spa setups...here is a handy guide for you http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Pooldownload.pdf